kerry's own words

[kallend 2,174]

It is as unrealistic to characterize all people on welfare as lazy shirkers squirting out babies as it is to characterize all Republicans as greedy warmongers who wish to enslave the poor. In each case, the description only applies to some of them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

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TANF cash assistance caseloads fell significantly in the first five years, and overall, the number of single parents who now work has risen markedly. Studies of families who have left cash assistance show that at any point, about 60 percent of former welfare recipients are employed, while 40 percent are not.

Those who work generally earn low wages and often remain poor. In a review of studies of families who left welfare and are working, the Center for Law and Social Policy found that working former recipients tended to earn between $6 and $8.50 per hour. In addition, many families who left welfare do not receive two key income supports – Medicaid and food stamps – despite remaining eligible for these benefits. This happened in some cases because states did not have procedures in place to ensure that families continued to receive these important benefits, which help working families make ends meet.

Many families left welfare not because they found a job, but because they were terminated from the program for failing to comply with requirements, such as the work requirements. Research has shown that many of these families experience barriers to employment that likely impeded their ability to meet the state’s expectations. These barriers include: mental and physical impairments; substance abuse; domestic violence; low literacy or skill levels; learning disabilities; having a child with a disability; and problems with housing, child care, or transportation. Many families with barriers to employment remain in TANF, and one of the challenges in the years ahead will be to help them overcome these barriers so they can succeed in the workforce.

As cash assistance caseloads fell sharply in the early years of TANF, some federal TANF funds went unspent. As states adjusted to the broader purposes of TANF, they redirected the freed-up resources that previously went to pay cash benefits into programs that provide supports to low-income working families (particularly child care), as well as into welfare-to-work programs. These unspent TANF funds, which states had built up in the first several years of TANF implementation, are now dwindling. The Congressional Budget Office projects that states will cut overall TANF spending from $19.3 billion in 2003 to $16.9 billion by 2008, due to the loss of reserves. The erosion in the purchasing power of these funds due to inflation will make the impact even more severe.

[Ron 10]

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Studies of families who have left cash assistance show that at any point, about 60 percent of former welfare recipients are employed, while 40 percent are not.

Whats hard about getting a job?

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In a review of studies of families who left welfare and are working, the Center for Law and Social Policy found that working former recipients tended to earn between $6 and $8.50 per hour.

17,680...I lived on that for several years...And managed to skydive some.

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Many families left welfare not because they found a job, but because they were terminated from the program for failing to comply with requirements, such as the work requirements. Research has shown that many of these families experience barriers to employment that likely impeded their ability to meet the state’s expectations. These barriers include: mental and physical impairments; substance abuse; domestic violence; low literacy or skill levels; learning disabilities; having a child with a disability; and problems with housing, child care, or transportation.

Substance abuse is their fault. Domestic Violence...again them. Low literacy...did they not got o school? Did they try in school? Don't have kids if you can't support them.

Now, if thery are physically or mentally disabled...I can see supporting them.

But if they are able boddied and just not willing...Then nope.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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It is as unrealistic to characterize all people on welfare as lazy shirkers squirting out babies as it is to characterize all Republicans as greedy warmongers who wish to enslave the poor. In each case, the description only applies to some of them.

True, but you fight against the greedy warmongers who wish to enslave the poor...

And I fight against the lazy shirkers squirting out babies.

I have no desire to go to war, and I have no desire to enslave the poor.

What I do desire is that only those than NEED help and are willing to WORK get help from me.

I want people to recieve what they are willing to EARN.

That means no free handouts to people who are not wanting to do more than get the free handout.

Sick, disabled, mentally ill....I can see helping them, and I have no problem with it.

People who due to circumstances that they could not help...Getting laid off, ect..I have no problem helping.

People who would rather sit around and get high than work....I have no pity for them.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

I agree with you in principle, Ron. But tell me, if the options are that some people who aren't deserving get handouts to help those who do deserve it VS. those that need and deserve help don't get it to make sure that freeloaders don't, which do you choose?

That's the reality of the situation. Without an even more massive beuaracracy that would end up costing tax payers more you have an imperfect systerm. Persaonlly, I'd rather err by letting some shmucks get a free ride rather than see people who need and deserve help starving in the streets.

I'm completely in favor of welfare reform as long as it's not the creation of massive beuracracy and doesn't screw over those that need and deserve help.

[Ron 10]

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I agree with you in principle, Ron. But tell me, if the options are that some people who aren't deserving get handouts to help those who do deserve it VS. those that need and deserve help don't get it to make sure that freeloaders don't, which do you choose?

If those were my only two options...I would have to go with the more compasionate one.

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That's the reality of the situation. Without an even more massive beuaracracy

I'd rather pay MORE to make sure freeloaders don't get a free ride than pay less and let them ride for free.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

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I'd rather pay MORE to make sure freeloaders don't get a free ride than pay less and let them ride for free.

I'd like to see the politician that runs on the platform of "I'm raising your taxes so that we can elliminate people from the welfare rolls".

I can understand you attitude on the matter but it's just not realistic.

[Ron 10]

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I'd like to see the politician that runs on the platform of "I'm raising your taxes so that we can elliminate people from the welfare rolls".

If he could show a good plan that the bleeding harts would not try and stop....I'd vote for him.

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I can understand you attitude on the matter but it's just not realistic.

I don't think that it's OK to accept the status quo..just cause the correct path is to hard.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

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I don't think that it's OK to accept the status quo..just cause the correct path is to hard.

I agree. Like I said, I have no problem with reforming welfare, as long as it's done the right way. I don't have confidence in the current gov't to get it right, though.

To totally change the subject, that attitude is exaclty what Laura Bush expressed the other night on Larry King regarding Stem Cell Research. She said that it is putting out false hope that a cure for Alzheimers is around the corner when in actuality, it would take stem cell research years to come up with something. Therefore, stem cell research shouldn't be allowed. Basically she was saying, it's going to take a long time to get results, so don't bother.

[Ron 10]

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I agree. Like I said, I have no problem with reforming welfare, as long as it's done the right way. I don't have confidence in the current gov't to get it right, though.

And thats the major difference between us...I don't have faith ANY government Dem or Rep will be able to fix it...Why?

Well the Dems think the Reps don't want to help anyone...Even when some of us say we are willing to help those that really need it. But that we don't want to just hand out free lunch. We think that the Dems are to quick to hand out aid instead of seeing if it is really needed.

So we see you as a bleeding hart that wants to give out aid "just in case"...

And you see us as a group that does not want to help anyone.

So NO Government will fix it.

As a Dem you think the Government should help.

As a Rep I think that giving them money to fast and to easily just lets them get lazy...Maybe not all, but enough that there is a problem.

As a Rep I think the INDIVIDUAL should be more responsible for his/her future. I also think that if you really want to move up you can.

As a Dem you think that you can't overcome adversity on your own.

See we will never agree.

I agree that there are times when even the best intended need help...And that the injured or disabled need help.

But when I see able boddied people not doing anything to make their life better since we will support them...Thats fucked up.

And given the choice of giving to soon or to much and maybe reinforcing them to be lazy and dependent, or making them work to move up and help them along the way....

I'm going to have to side with INDIVIDUAL responsibility every time.

Its who I am.

I think the current system breeds dependency.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334