The Gay Thing

[freeflybella 0]

It's also a really good human lesson.

You can't just repress what or who you are.
Eventually, it must be dealt with.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Muenkel 0]

OK, I can see it from that point of view. But you must admit that you are assuming. Lib card still in danger.

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Chris

[PhillyKev 0]

I prefer "speculating". It's a clear exeption in the liberal handbook.

[Deuce 1]

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Well, you're not gay, are you?

I'm just saying, those two aspects of his life could have a lot to do with self-denial of homosexuality. There's a reason that a fair number of gays join the clergy. They think there's something wrong with themselves and try to deny their natural inclinations. You have to admit that Catholicism has a long history of self guilt and denial. Maybe not in your particular case, but people don't go around flogging themselves (both literally and figuratively) for nothing.

Good lord. Do you just carry that stereotype around in your wallet? Boilerplate like that is pretty heavy to have to carry around all day, I'd think.

[PhillyKev 0]

Again, for the reading comprehesion impaired. I was not commenting about anyone except this particular person. And I was commenting about what may be contributing factors to why a homosexual would deny his natural inclinations. It was not a commentary on catholics. It was a commentary on self-denying homosexuals and the factors which may contribute to attempting to lead a double life.

EDIT: If any Catholics want to show me how catholicism supports living a gay life style or even exploring sexuality for those in doubt, please educate me.

[peregrinerose 0]

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If any Catholics want to show me how catholicism supports living a gay life style or even exploring sexuality for those in doubt, please educate me.

I was raised Catholic. There is no sex of any kind except for the sole purpose of reproduction in the Catholic Church. Any other reason for having sex of any kind including within marriage (since birth control is not allowed) is dooming you to hell. Yes, I do exaggerate a little with this, but not a whole lot. It took a really long time for me to even consider sex, I was afraid of it and what would happen to me as a result. Things change....

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Muenkel 0]

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I was raised Catholic. There is no sex of any kind except for the sole purpose of reproduction in the Catholic Church. Any other reason for having sex of any kind including within marriage (since birth control is not allowed) is dooming you to hell.

Well, you may have missed a few CCD classes because this statement is untrue. According to Catholic teachings a married couple may have sex as often as they want as long as they are willing to accept pregnancy, should it happen. True, artificial birth control is not allowed but they can still practise Natural Family Planning. Sex serves two purposes in a Catholic marriage. One being procreation, the other being the open expression of love between the married couple.

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Chris

[peregrinerose 0]

Definitely NOT what I was taught. Only form of BC allowed was abstinance. No sex encouraged if not ready for kids. Sex very much frowned upon at all. Very strict Irish Catholic church I went to... CCD was called Catechism, entire service in Latin, etc. There are definitely variations in Catholic churches and how things are taught, far more tolerance in some than others.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Zenister 0]

are you seriously arguing that the dogma and doctrines of the Catholic Church and the Marine Corps have NOT been responsible for a great deal of repression on the part of their members?

ps.. there is a HUGE difference between your average military member and a DI...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Kennedy 0]

Well, I'm no Catholic, but a teenage girl being around others in those hot little school girl outfits? C'mon, if you were a chick, that would contribute to thinking about playing for the other team, right?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Yeah, your average DI still has some discipline, as opposed to your average enlistee


(ok, I got in two fairly amusing and strongly cynical posts, and I'm smiling. Time to sign off for the day.)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Muenkel 0]

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are you seriously arguing that the dogma and doctrines of the Catholic Church and the Marine Corps have NOT been responsible for a great deal of repression on the part of their members?

Yup.

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Chris

[Deuce 1]

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Again, for the reading comprehesion impaired.

Ow. Got me again. Those damned Catholic schools spending all their time getting me to deny my sexuality rather than teaching me to read. ( My repression and guilt is legendary on dropzones on two continents and one fairly big island )

Puh-leese. Like society in general isn't hostile enough towards homosexuals that there is any need to single out one religion.

"If not for Catholicism and the Marine Corps, all the rest of society would have gladly embraced me and my lifestyle!"

Definitely the Catholics and the Marines keeping all those NFL, NHL, NBA and Big League baseball players in the closet.

They are freaking EVERYWHERE!

Narrow it down as much as you'd like, Philly, the guy didn't need the New Jersey Catholic vote as much as he needs the New Jersey Democratic Party's support. Thus the weird "resignation" date.

[Muenkel 0]

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Definitely NOT what I was taught. Only form of BC allowed was abstinance. No sex encouraged if not ready for kids.

Sorry to break this to you, but you were taught wrong.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Jimbo 0]

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Definitely NOT what I was taught. Only form of BC allowed was abstinance. No sex encouraged if not ready for kids.

Sorry to break this to you, but you were taught wrong.

What makes you the authority on the teachings of the Catholic church?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Muenkel 0]

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What makes you the authority on the teachings of the Catholic church?

I've studied it my entire life and when I have a question, I refer to the Catholic Catechism that sits on my coffee table.

If you find a statement I made that was wrong, post it. I'll be happy to look it up.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Zenister 0]

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are you seriously arguing that the dogma and doctrines of the Catholic Church and the Marine Corps have NOT been responsible for a great deal of repression on the part of their members?

Yup.

wow.. you've got to be kidding.. the Catholic Church very nearly wrote the book on repressive dogma and actively encourages repressive behavior in its members... the Marine Corps could almost take lessons.. Care to quote your church’s position on homosexual members? How about premarital sex? But you don’t think repression is a fundamental element??

I'm sure we could gather quite the anecdotal evidence relating to repressed emotions and behavior on the part of 'catholic school girls' from the members of this site alone... are you also going to argue that it doesn’t really happen and that the archetype (its so pervasive to be far more than a stereotype) is completely fabricated?

Do you believe social pressures to conform do not keep members of both groups ‘in line’? or that the Marine Corps hasn’t practiced a rather physical means of exerting it’s pressure to conform since its inception? How many ‘natural’ reactions do you think are modified or eliminated thru the process of military training?

Now imagine a circumstance where an individual discovers their basic nature to be fundamentally different from two (possibly the two primary) sources of social influence in their lives? Or do you think it would be an easy thing to cast aside 40+ years of behavior learned at institutions that have had hundreds of years to perfect their indoctrination methods?? Or do you still claim there is no pattern of repression encouraged in either organization??

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Puh-leese. Like society in general isn't hostile enough towards homosexuals that there is any need to single out one religion.

True...most religions are intolerant of homosexuality. Catholocism just seems to be leading the pack.

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"If not for Catholicism and the Marine Corps, all the rest of society would have gladly embraced me and my lifestyle!"

And for the THIRD time. I was talking about HIS PERSONAL self-denial. Not how the rest of society views homosexuality.

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Definitely the Catholics and the Marines keeping all those NFL, NHL, NBA and Big League baseball players in the closet.

And if he were an MLB player, I'd say that was a contributing factor. But he isn't. And even if they are institutions that promote self delusion about sexuality, that doesn't make it any better that catholicism is repressive as well.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Definitely NOT what I was taught. Only form of BC allowed was abstinance. No sex encouraged if not ready for kids.

Sorry to break this to you, but you were taught wrong.

Unless you want to dispute that she and others were taught this, it doesn't really matter, does it?

[billvon 3,119]

>Sex serves two purposes in a Catholic marriage. One being
> procreation, the other being the open expression of love between
> the married couple.

Provided it's an acceptable type. When Amy and I took the church-required NFP course before we got married, it was taught by a couple that practiced NFP (and who ironically had two unplanned pregnancies.) Oral sex was _not_ part of an approved catholic lifestyle because it "did not make the woman an equal partner in the marital embrace." (I thought it was funny that they assumed that oral sex only went one way . . .)

[pdj6p 0]

I don't think that drill sargents can be repressing to gay activities. When I was at basic training my drill sargents threatend to put thier dicks into places on privates that no hetero sexual man would ever think of.

Death is so permanant, and I'm just not ready for that kind of committment.

[Deuce 1]

Bill, I'm a big fan of yours.

So, tongue in cheek, so to speak, did you look the nice little old lady in the eye and ask her about blowjobs?

For the record, I was not allowed to get married in the Catholic Church. I am, in fact, a very bad man.

Nevertheless, I appreciate the efforts of the good people, and that is the standard I strive for. Frankly, I'm not that good, but that doesn't mean that I don't know what good is, Philly.

I couldn't give one watery shit what anybody else thinks of my little family. We are, however, a very good one. With all our individual and collective flaws.

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[billvon 3,119]

>So, tongue in cheek, so to speak, did you look the nice little old lady in
> the eye and ask her about blowjobs?

No. During an early meeting with our local priest, he gave us a bunch of literature for wedding planning. One of them said something along the lines of:
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'Here comes the bride' is not appropriate for music during the wedding ceremony. In fact it comes from an adaptation of a Shakespeare play, and was performed during a sham wedding between a man and a prostitute. Protestants may find such music acceptable, but it is not acceptable to the Catholic church for such a solemn ceremony.
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Now, Amy's Lutheran. Originally that made me pretty mad, but we agreed from that point on that we'd just nod at any such references to other religions and other outlandish suggestions (like oral sex was not on the get-into-heaven list.)

>For the record, I was not allowed to get married in the Catholic Church. I
>am, in fact, a very bad man.

Amy was almost a very bad woman, but we got a waiver so that a protestant sinner like her could be married within the church.

>Nevertheless, I appreciate the efforts of the good people, and that is the
> standard I strive for.

And in both churches I think that 90% of the people are truly good people, and are trying to do good by others. It's the 10% we hear about all too often.

[Zenister 0]

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but we got a waiver so that a protestant sinner like her could be married within the church.

did you get any saints bones or slivers of the true cross with the absolution?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Muenkel 0]

You know Zenister, I believe in my faith and proud of it. It is my choice.

I find it ironic that the mantra of liberalism is "Celibrate Diversity." Yet, they cannot tolerate Catholocism.

I was taught by my religion to "not judge, lest ye be judged." Sounds to me like I have to accept diversity.

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Chris