Jimbo 0 #1 August 10, 2004 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=5&u=/nm/20040810/pl_nm/campaign_bush_dc The Bush campaign has been pressuring Kerry to say whether he would have still voted for the Iraq war given the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been found. Kerry on Monday said he would have voted to give the president authorization to use force against Iraq "but I would have used that authority effectively." Is that a flip or a flop? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #2 August 10, 2004 QuoteIs that a flip or a flop? Depends, when did he ever say he wouldn't have? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #3 August 11, 2004 Well, to be correct on that issue he has said : "aye' and "nay", alternating."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #4 August 11, 2004 My favorite part was this: Quote Kerry on Monday said he would have voted to give the president authorization to use force against Iraq "but I would have used that authority effectively." Bush took up the issue before 10,000 supporters in Pensacola. "Now, almost two years after he voted for the war in Iraq, and almost 220 days after switching positions to declare himself the anti-war candidate, my opponent has found a new nuance," said Bush. "He now agrees it was the right decision to go into Iraq." "After months of questioning my motives, and even my credibility, Senator Kerry now agrees with me that even though we have not found the stockpiles of weapons we all believed were there, knowing everything we know today, he would have voted to go into Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power. I want to thank Senator Kerry for clearing that up," Bush said. Kerry's campaign national security adviser, Rand Beers, fired back. "The issue has never been whether we were right to hold Saddam accountable, the issue is that we went to war without our allies, without properly equipping our troops and without a plan to win the peace," Beers said. You mean get allies like France that was selling weapons and high tech equipment to Iraq in violation of UN sanctions? You mean the people that were making money off of the "Oil for food" program? You were waiting for those people to join us?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #5 August 11, 2004 "You mean the people that were making money off of the "Oil for food" program? " I think we will all be a little surprised as to who did what in this particular debacle. For example, Chevron Texaco, Exxon Mobil, and Valero have all received subpoenas for documents relating to this.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #6 August 11, 2004 QuoteI think we will all be a little surprised as to who did what in this particular debacle. For example, Chevron Texaco, Exxon Mobil, and Valero have all received subpoenas for documents relating to this. Well getting a subponea..is not guilt...But I think it's great. I am MORE interested in who in the UN got what."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #7 August 11, 2004 "I am MORE interested in who in the UN got what." Likewise, but also who paid them, and why..... Either way, we won't know for sure till the investigation has run its course.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #8 August 11, 2004 QuoteWell, to be correct on that issue he has said : "aye' and "nay", alternating. Really? When did he say he wouldn't have. You guys are making assumptions. Many Kerry supporters also believe we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. But that doesn't mean Kerry believes that, or believed that, or ever said it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #9 August 11, 2004 Kerry has only one positive - he's better than Bush. Other than that he is a poor candidate.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #10 August 11, 2004 Quote Kerry has only one positive - he's better than Bush. Other than that he is a poor candidate. And that is a poor reason to vote Kerry, or for that matter, any other candidate. It's a sad time we live in. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #11 August 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteWell, to be correct on that issue he has said : "aye' and "nay", alternating. Really? When did he say he wouldn't have. You guys are making assumptions. Many Kerry supporters also believe we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. But that doesn't mean Kerry believes that, or believed that, or ever said it. Well, here is one: "Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war." letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991] I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #12 August 11, 2004 I don't see how you can construe voting against immediate authority to go to war as saying he was against the war. He's stated quite clearly a number of times that he would have worked toward a broader coalition first, not that he wouldn't have gone at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #13 August 11, 2004 Now you are changingthe subject - It is obvious that he did not support the war at this time - or at least didn't want this person to THINK that he supported it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #14 August 11, 2004 You're right, it's obvious that he didn't support going to war at that time. What about his recent statement contradicts that? By the way, what do the "..." in your quote represent? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #15 August 11, 2004 Original Question: QuoteIs that a flip or a flop? Your answer: QuoteDepends, when did he ever say he wouldn't have? Response to your answer QuoteWell, to be correct on that issue he has said : "aye' and "nay", alternating. Your response: Quote Really? When did he say he wouldn't have. You guys are making assumptions. Many Kerry supporters also believe we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. But that doesn't mean Kerry believes that, or believed that, or ever said it. My Response: QuoteWell, here is one: "Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war." letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991] Your response: You're right, it's obvious that he didn't support going to war at that time. What about his recent statement contradicts that? By the way, what do the "..." in your quote represent? *** So . . .answer please - Is that a Flip or a Flop? In answer to your question - I believe the ". . ." shows where impertinant text was left out of the quoted passage. Since, it is how one would use such a punctuation.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 August 11, 2004 I'm still waiting to see where Kerry said he wouldn't have used force against Iraq. If you show me that, I'll concede that this appears to be double talk. What you presented was a quote from him saying that he was concerned about the early use of force and that he would have attempted other measures first. QuoteIn answer to your question - I believe the ". . ." shows where impertinant text was left out of the quoted passage. Since, it is how one would use such a punctuation. Or one could use it to remove information that contextually would change the meaning of the quote. For example, from your post about Keyes. "So everyone in New York ... is an idiot " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #17 August 11, 2004 >You mean get allies like France that was selling weapons and high > tech equipment to Iraq in violation of UN sanctions? That was primarily us. Check out who sold germ cultures, chemical weapons precursors and helicopters to Iraq in the 80's. >You mean the people that were making money off of the "Oil for > food" program? That was Halliburton. >You were waiting for those people to join us? Join us? They ARE us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #18 August 11, 2004 "That was Halliburton. >You were waiting for those people to join us? Join us? They ARE us. " That is so true, on so many levels.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #19 August 11, 2004 QuoteI'm still waiting to see where Kerry said he wouldn't have used force against Iraq. If you show me that, I'll concede that this appears to be double talk. What you presented was a quote from him saying that he was concerned about the early use of force and that he would have attempted other measures first. QuoteIn answer to your question - I believe the ". . ." shows where impertinant text was left out of the quoted passage. Since, it is how one would use such a punctuation. Or one could use it to remove information that contextually would change the meaning of the quote. For example, from your post about Keyes. "So everyone in New York ... is an idiot " Nice avoidance - Won't admit it huh? Sad.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 August 11, 2004 QuoteWon't admit it huh? I'm still trying to figure out what I'm supposed to admit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #21 August 11, 2004 QuoteKerry has only one positive - he's better than Bush. Other than that he is a poor candidate. Was Kerry lying about the time he was taking fire "deep" in Cambodia on Christmas eve, or is he just incompetent? . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbarry 0 #22 August 12, 2004 QuoteWas Kerry lying about the time he was taking fire "deep" in Cambodia on Christmas eve, or is he just incompetent? And... if kerry was in cambodia, was it a part of that 'great society' liberal Johnson's approved strategy, or was he just incompetent in not knowing troops were there? lame duck or not, he was still prez... somewhere in this is someone who's lying, or incompetent, or both. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #23 August 12, 2004 Quote>You mean get allies like France that was selling weapons and high > tech equipment to Iraq in violation of UN sanctions? That was primarily us. Check out who sold germ cultures, chemical weapons precursors and helicopters to Iraq in the 80's. Turn off the wayback machine, Bill... we're talking about post Desert Storm, after the sanctions were in place. Quote>You mean the people that were making money off of the "Oil for > food" program? That was Halliburton. Post your cite showing that fact, please. And, I suppose all the news coming out about the UN making big cash off of abusing the Oil For Food program doesn't mean anything either.....right? Quote>You were waiting for those people to join us? Join us? They ARE us. The fact still remains that France, Germany and Russia - the countries that were most vehement in arguing against taking military action in Iraq - were all found to be selling items prohibited by the post-Desert Storm sanctions to Iraq.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #24 August 12, 2004 Quote>You mean get allies like France that was selling weapons and high > tech equipment to Iraq in violation of UN sanctions? That was primarily us. Check out who sold germ cultures, chemical weapons precursors and helicopters to Iraq in the 80's. >You mean the people that were making money off of the "Oil for > food" program? That was Halliburton. >You were waiting for those people to join us? Join us? They ARE us. Come to the 90's Bill...AFTER gulf war I France had a very nice economic relationship with Iraq. And Im talking about the UN making money on "Oil for Food"....."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #25 August 12, 2004 "And Im talking about the UN making money on "Oil for Food"..... " I hope you are talking about corrupt individuals making money within the UN, as opposed to the UN as an organisation. There is a huge difference.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
