Jimbo 0 #1 August 10, 2004 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20040809/ts_latimes/alliesnotinformationonkerrystroopsplan&e=4 - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #2 August 10, 2004 A lot of that article makes sense Jimbo. "But many European diplomats say they are coming to the conclusion that Bush and Kerry are close on key international issues and that there would be substantial continuity between the administrations." I don't see a huge change on the cards if Kerry wins, "Meet the new Boss same as the old Boss", kind of thing in terms of foreign policy. At the end of the day, thats all we are really interested in, as ferriners. Your internal promises and policies are just fluff to us over here. The idea that US trrops will be replaced by European troops is risible at worst, imaginative at best, and probably unrealsitic in actuality.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #3 August 10, 2004 Quoteand probably unrealsitic in actuality. Ya think? But Kerry has a plan! That he can't share with anyone because it's top secret. That article made Kerry sound like an arragont blowhard. They'll listen to ME he says. Listen or not, there are only a few countries on the planet that can contribute enough troops to allow the US an exit from Iraq, and they aren't about to pony them up. Nevermind that the Iraqi citizens don't want troops from ANY nation - they want everyone out. What a jackass. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #4 August 10, 2004 Does make sense. No one expects a miracle cure when Kerry gets sworn in. The hope is that he won't make the same mistakes that Bush has and put us in a similar mess in the future. As far as I can tell, Bush never admits fault, probably doesn't even recognize that he's done anything wrong, and never learns from his mistakes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #5 August 10, 2004 QuoteNo one expects a miracle cure when Kerry gets sworn in. Really? It seems that Kerry is trying to promise one. If nothing else, he's suggesting that he has one. I'm just waiting for Read my lips! US troops out of Iraq now. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #6 August 10, 2004 QuoteDoes make sense. No one expects a miracle cure when Kerry gets sworn in. The hope is that he won't make the same mistakes that Bush has and put us in a similar mess in the future. As far as I can tell, Bush never admits fault, probably doesn't even recognize that he's done anything wrong, and never learns from his mistakes. Kerry says he has an exit plan...But can't talk about it... Kerry has the support of World Leaders...But can't say who they are. Kerry has grand plans for everything...But no real plans. I am seeing a trend here"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #7 August 10, 2004 Quote Kerry says he has an exit plan...But can't talk about it... Kerry has the support of World Leaders...But can't say who they are. Kerry has grand plans for everything...But no real plans. I am seeing a trend here -Bush said he had an exit plan... Can't implement it, and made the mistake of taking us there in the first place... But none of that plan was his... It was all from other people who misguided him since the day before he took office -Bush doesn'ty have the support of World Leaders, the UN, Nato, etc... Saturated foreign relations... It's safe to assume that the world's opinion of the US and GWB has declined greatly over the past 4 years... seen any rallies lately? -Bush's plan comes straight from god... Take away women's rights, intertwine church and state, don't fund any aids related organization unless it preaches abstinance... blah, blah, blah... Good thing God is here to lead the way. -Trendy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #8 August 10, 2004 Yes, we all know that Bush's plan isn't perfect. But the article is about Kerry's plan. Do you understand the difference? It's Kerry who's running around telling the world that he has a plan, but he can't talk about it. Wanna talk about Bush's plan? Start another thread. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #9 August 10, 2004 QuoteDo you understand the difference? excuse me for responding with a comparision of Bush, my bad... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #10 August 10, 2004 Quote-Bush said he had an exit plan... Can't implement it But Kerry has the answer? Quotemade the mistake of taking us there in the first place. Your OPINION...I think it was the best thing to do. QuoteBut none of that plan was his... It was all from other people who misguided him since the day before he took office Speculation with no facts...Nice try at a slam. Quote-Bush doesn'ty have the support of World Leaders, the UN, Nato, etc... Saturated foreign relations... It's safe to assume that the world's opinion of the US and GWB has declined greatly over the past 4 years... seen any rallies lately? Oh, but Kerry will save us...Since Bush could not get support, and HE VOTED TO GO TO WAR...And he does not plan to pull our troops out..You think the world is going to embrace Kerry? He will not change one thing if he gets in office...And the Nations that hate us...Will still hate us. Quote-Bush's plan comes straight from god... Take away women's rights, intertwine church and state, don't fund any aids related organization unless it preaches abstinance... blah, blah, blah... Good thing God is here to lead the way Morals are bad? Oh thats right you like Kerry a man tha will go whatever way the polls go.....Till another poll tells him to go back."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #11 August 10, 2004 QuoteBush said he had an exit plan... Can't implement it, and made the mistake of taking us there in the first place... But none of that plan was his... It was all from other people who misguided him since the day before he took office Not entirely accurate. The Joint Chiefs of Staff actually gave him a plan that called for more troops, a whole hell of a lot more. But Rumsfeld and Bush ignored their warnings about the inability to maintain an orderly occupation with the number of troops being sent. Bush never would have gotten approval if he was honest with the public and congress about what was actually needed. So rather than not implement a faulty plan, he went with a half assed one so that he could accomplish the goal outlined by the New American Century back in 93. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #12 August 10, 2004 Quote Speculation with no facts...Nice try at a slam. Nice "slam" attempt... I could have sworn that the CIA has taken the blame for the bad intel leading up to the war in Iraq... maybe it's just me, but wasn't that a big thing in the news a couple of weeks ago? And that's great that you think that going into Iraq was "the best thing to do"... Let me guess... military background, right? There have been around 15,000 civilian and military deaths, tons of money wasted, saturated foreign relations, and the threat from terrorists is greater than ever, and you think it was the best thing to do? Read the news about how completely out of control it is over there lately? Everyone voted to go to War! Don't sit here and blame Kerry for supporting the misguided president. The fact that they focused on Iraq even before the CIA was able to offer any evidence or ties to Iraq leads me to conclude (and many others in the US) that going into Iraq was an immediate objective and obsession of GWB, and not related to the attacks on the WTC, and not the best move for the country, the fight against terrorism, or global stability. I think the world is going to embrace Kerry... In fact, I think that the world opinion of the United States will be much greater as soon as GWB is taken out of office.... It really doesn't matter who replaces him (as far as global opinion is concerned). Obviously morals aren't bad, buddy... What is bad is a President who dictates the future of the United States based on the word of God, whom he believes speaks directly to him. "And you're either with us or against us"<--- I think he was talking about himand god, and not the American people. There's an incredible number of people in the Used to be United States of America that believe in another god, another set of beliefs, and that there should be a separation of church and state. Remeber that concept? (sorry Jimbo, i know this is your thread about kerry, but i couldn't resist) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 August 10, 2004 QuoteI could have sworn that the CIA has taken the blame for the bad intel leading up to the war in Iraq... So, with the CIA, English MI6, the Saudi Intelegence, and HUMINT from Iraq, you think Gore or Kerry would have made a different choice? Kerry also supported the war ill it became unfashionable not to support it. QuoteAnd that's great that you think that going into Iraq was "the best thing to do"... Let me guess... military background, right? Yep, let me guess you don't have any? Read any on the middle east? Do you know that there needs to be stabalizing force in the middle east and SH was not it? Do you know that the four largest Muslim countries have some form of Democracy and also the least amount of terrorism? Quote John O. Voll, professor of Islamic history at Georgetown University's Center for Christian-Muslim Understanding, notes that of the four most populous Muslim societies, two--Indonesia and Bangladesh--are competitive democracies with female heads of state. Of the other two, India is the world's largest democracy with a large Muslim minority that has actively participated in the political process since India was founded while Pakistan is currently a military dictatorship but also has some tradition of democracy. SH supported Terror..He gave money to the families of suicide bombers. Everyone agreed (Including Kerry, Clinton, Gore...et al) that SH wanted to have WMD's. So yes, it was a good move to remove a violent Dictator that has used WMDS three times in his history that wanted more and supported terrorism. One that under his reign killed more of his own people than the entire war will. And replace him with a Democratic republic. QuoteThere have been around 15,000 civilian and military deaths Still less than he killed while he was in power. Quotetons of money wasted I thought Dems liked helping the needy? Quotesaturated foreign relations What France and Germany and a bunch of Nations that hated us before anyway? It didn't change anything...It just gave them one more reason to hate us...Funny how France had economic ties to Iraq huh? QuoteEveryone voted to go to War! Don't sit here and blame Kerry for supporting the misguided president So the fact that GWB was misguided is bad...But the fact that Kerry and EVERYONE else was ALSO misguided is OK? By the SAME intel no less. QuoteThe fact that they focused on Iraq even before the CIA was able to offer any evidence or ties to Iraq leads me to conclude (and many others in the US) that going into Iraq was an immediate objective and obsession of GWB, and not related to the attacks on the WTC, and not the best move for the country, the fight against terrorism, or global stability. Gee, the fact he did support terrorism, and started one war already plus used WMD's before and was trying to get more. Tells me he was a bad guy, doing bad things..Add in all of the humanitarian reasons...And it STILL was a good move. QuoteI think the world is going to embrace Kerry... In fact, I think that the world opinion of the United States will be much greater as soon as GWB is taken out of office.... It really doesn't matter who replaces him (as far as global opinion is concerned). Take off the rose colored glasses....Countires hated us before and they will hate us no matter who is in office. You think 9/11 would not have happend if Gore had won? How about Beruit, the first WTC attack? The Cole? ALL happend under a Prez that let OBL alone....And yet he still attacked. Being hated is one of the bad parts of winning the cold war and being the only remaining super power. QuoteObviously morals aren't bad, buddy... What is bad is a President who dictates the future of the United States based on the word of God I think what is worse is a guy that votes whatever will make him popular. Quote based on the word of God, whom he believes speaks directly to him. "And you're either with us or against us"<--- I think he was talking about himand god, and not the American people. What makes you qualified to say that you think it was him and God, and not him and the US? QuoteThere's an incredible number of people in the Used to be United States of America that believe in another god, another set of beliefs, and that there should be a separation of church and state. Remeber that concept? Yep, and so far as I can tell he has not stepped on your right to worship a pig name Gil if you want. I think a moral leader is a much better choice than the past guy or a guy that will do what he thinks will make him loved... Kerry: " I'm popular, I'm smart and gosh darn it...People like me! I'm JFK II"."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
