Just...... wow

[Kennedy 0]

If you really want to be amazed, completely blown away, check this site every day or so.

http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-2004.shtml

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[newsstand 0]

Some amazing things, some stupid things, some things that don't come under the rules of "our way of life."

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Kennedy 0]

Yeah, the [url "http://www.barnabasfund.org/News/Archive/Sudan/Sudan-20040615.htm"Sudan[/url] thing....

Aren't they on the UN Human Rights Council, or do they get a seat next year?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[newsstand 0]

I can't find a quote because I can't remember enough details but within the last 12 months a middle eastern or african man was arrested for child molestation in the US because he kissed his son's penis at some significant event. The action was considered normal in his up-bringing but child molestation here. Sorry but if you want to live in the culture you need to follow the rules.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[MarkM 0]

I don't see where this one is so stupid:

Quote

Police in northeast England want tavern owners to refuse to sell alcohol to people who are under 21, even if they are above the legal drinking age of 18. Police say that it will cut down on crime. The crime they seem most interested in stopping is the alleged practice of young adults buying alcohol for their underage friends.

Private shop owners can sell to whoever they want and it'd be harder for sub 18 year olds to get alcohol if only over 21 year olds could by it.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"tavern owners to refuse to sell alcohol to people who are under 21,"

Most places have a voluntary over 21 policy regarding alcohol, specifically shops and stores.
Its a good thing IMO, but I would have been frutrated and more sober in my youth if such a practice were around then.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Kennedy 0]

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Private shop owners can sell to whoever they want and it'd be harder for sub 18 year olds to get alcohol if only over 21 year olds could by it.

Riiiiiiiiiight, because everyone I knew had soooo much trouble getting alcohol underage, and the drinking age here is 21, so they didn't have any legal drinking 18 year olds to buy for them.

Someday prohibitionists will learn that where there is a demand, there will be a supply. Price and participation may vary, but the laws of supply and demand may as well be laws of nature.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[TomAiello 26]

You can also get Reason in print. Or you can just borrow my back issues...

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Kennedy 0]

Of if you're stuck in a part time job at a book store because administrators and bureaucrats have made it their personal mission to fuck with you, you can red it for free, and bring last month's issue home each month.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

I can't find a quote because I can't remember enough details but within the last 12 months a middle eastern or african man was arrested for child molestation in the US because he kissed his son's penis at some significant event. The action was considered normal in his up-bringing but child molestation here. Sorry but if you want to live in the culture you need to follow the rules.

Wait just one motherfucking minute here. Are you saying that you believe that the woman who was NOT MUSLIM and therefore wasn't dressed "the muslim way" is WRONG to have not been wearing the head scarf, and deserved to be convicted in a court before which she could not present ANY DEFENSE WHATSOEVER and should have been WHIPPED?!

I surely hope you are fucking KIDDING me.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: religion is the most hateful thing to come of human civilization, and it must be eliminated if we are to EVER have peace and human rights.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

I don't see where this one is so stupid:

Quote

Police in northeast England want tavern owners to refuse to sell alcohol to people who are under 21, even if they are above the legal drinking age of 18. Police say that it will cut down on crime. The crime they seem most interested in stopping is the alleged practice of young adults buying alcohol for their underage friends.

Private shop owners can sell to whoever they want and it'd be harder for sub 18 year olds to get alcohol if only over 21 year olds could by it.

Wait, you don't think they're wrong to do this?
How on earth can they justify refusing to sell to those who are of legal age to buy?? If the problem is with people selling to those who are underage, go after THEM.

This is more of the mindless BULLSHIT of going after the people who are NOT the problem in a futile effort to affect those who ARE the problem.

How will this policy prevent, say, a 22-year-old from buying alcohol for 17-year-olds? Of course, the answer is, "It won't."

If they want to deny those under 21 buying alcohol, they should raise the legal age to 21. You can't justify not selling to those who can legally buy, because you're simply afraid that they'll make straw purchases. If they make straw purchases, punish them then.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Wait, you don't think they're wrong to do this?
How on earth can they justify refusing to sell to those who are of legal age to buy?? If the problem is with people selling to those who are underage, go after THEM.

There's nothing to justify. Private shop owners can sell or not sell to anyone they want.

Quote

This is more of the mindless BULLSHIT of going after the people who are NOT the problem in a futile effort to affect those who ARE the problem.

How will this policy prevent, say, a 22-year-old from buying alcohol for 17-year-olds? Of course, the answer is, "It won't."

If they want to deny those under 21 buying alcohol, they should raise the legal age to 21. You can't justify not selling to those who can legally buy, because you're simply afraid that they'll make straw purchases. If they make straw purchases, punish them then.

I got my booze as a teenager from stores that just sold to underage kids and the odd over 21 year old brother someone had. But it would've made it SO much easier to get booze when I was 16 or 17 if you only needed to know someone who was 18 to buy it.

I don't think they're aiming to eliminate it, just tone it down a notch.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

Wait, you don't think they're wrong to do this?
How on earth can they justify refusing to sell to those who are of legal age to buy?? If the problem is with people selling to those who are underage, go after THEM.

There's nothing to justify. Private shop owners can sell or not sell to anyone they want.

Quote

This is more of the mindless BULLSHIT of going after the people who are NOT the problem in a futile effort to affect those who ARE the problem.

How will this policy prevent, say, a 22-year-old from buying alcohol for 17-year-olds? Of course, the answer is, "It won't."

If they want to deny those under 21 buying alcohol, they should raise the legal age to 21. You can't justify not selling to those who can legally buy, because you're simply afraid that they'll make straw purchases. If they make straw purchases, punish them then.

I got my booze as a teenager from stores that just sold to underage kids and the odd over 21 year old brother someone had. But it would've made it SO much easier to get booze when I was 16 or 17 if you only needed to know someone who was 18 to buy it.

I don't think they're aiming to eliminate it, just tone it down a notch.

None of this explains why they should leave the drinking age at 18 if they don't want anyone from 18-21 to be able to buy the stuff. If you don't want 18 and19-year-olds buying beer for 17 year olds, raise the dame legal age! But to tell someone they're old enough, and legally allowed to purchase, and then tell them you refuse to sell to them is actually age discrimination. This story isn't about the shops choosing not to sell, btw, it's about the government trying to get shops not to sell to people over the legal age but under a "desired" age. That's bullshit, in my book. And if I were affected by it, I'd fight it in the courts.

Besides, who says that if a 17-year-old can't get an 18-year old to get him alcohol, he won't be able to find a 21-year-old to do it? The logic here is just pathetically stupid.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

"tavern owners to refuse to sell alcohol to people who are under 21,"

Most places have a voluntary over 21 policy regarding alcohol, specifically shops and stores.
Its a good thing IMO, but I would have been frutrated and more sober in my youth if such a practice were around then.

Man, the more I read here, the more the British subjects seem eager to have government tell them what they may and may not do!

Fuckin' terrifying that people can be so eager to be subjugated!

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Most places have a voluntary over 21 policy regarding alcohol, specifically shops and stores." ........
"Man, the more I read here, the more the British subjects seem eager to have government tell them what they may and may not do! "

There's a huge clue in the word "voluntary".

"Fuckin' terrifying that people can be so eager to be subjugated!"

Are you now advocating that we don't change laws that don't work?

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[newsstand 0]

I am saying that apparently she broke the law of the land and even though you and I may not agree with the law she violated it and was punished.

Seems that according to the article this is just what the current unrest in Sudan is all about.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[MarkM 0]

Quote

None of this explains why they should leave the drinking age at 18 if they don't want anyone from 18-21 to be able to buy the stuff. If you don't want 18 and19-year-olds buying beer for 17 year olds, raise the dame legal age!

Because at 18 you'd still be able to go to a pub and buy drinks or go to a club and buy drinks. The local shops just wouldn't sell you a bottle of Jack until you were 21.

It really makes no less sense than forcing people to wait 3 years after they're a legal adult before they can enter a bar.

[Botellines 0]

Quote

Besides, who says that if a 17-year-old can't get an 18-year old to get him alcohol, he won't be able to find a 21-year-old to do it? The logic here is just pathetically stupid.

No it is not. Don´t let your anger cloud your brain and think again.
Most groups of friend have a range of ages of 2 or 3 years of diference. Is your birthday the same age than your friends? I didn´t think so.
So when the oldest turn 18, he can buy alcohol to his 15 years old friends. However if the seller Voluntarily refuses to sell unless he is 21, it is more unlikely that he will pass that alcohol to a 15 years old guy. I mean, most 21 years old guys don´t go out with 15 years old guys.

[PhillyKev 0]

I had no problem getting beer when I was 15. I asked an 18 year old friend with a fake id to get it.

Is there anything you don't want to restrict, regulate, or ban in some manner?

[Jimbo 0]

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Is there anything you don't want to restrict, regulate, or ban in some manner?

Restrictions, regulations, and bannings. You can never have enough of those!

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Kennedy 0]

The "Three R's" of any liberal:

Regulation
Registration
Removal

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

I am saying that apparently she broke the law of the land and even though you and I may not agree with the law she violated it and was punished.

Seems that according to the article this is just what the current unrest in Sudan is all about.

That law is based on fanatical, outrageous, irrational religious fundamentalist extremism, and on its face is so contrary to the concept of human individual rights as to be utterly contemptible.

Have you never heard of the moral obligation to oppose and break laws that are wrong?

It was once against the law to harbor fugitive slaves in the United States of America. Will you really defend the enforcement of those laws, just because they were the laws at the time? Or is it more defensible to break laws that are so clearly wrong?

Blind adherence to law just because it is law is a dangerous, ignorant practice.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

None of this explains why they should leave the drinking age at 18 if they don't want anyone from 18-21 to be able to buy the stuff. If you don't want 18 and19-year-olds buying beer for 17 year olds, raise the dame legal age!

Because at 18 you'd still be able to go to a pub and buy drinks or go to a club and buy drinks. The local shops just wouldn't sell you a bottle of Jack until you were 21.

Quote

Police in northeast England want tavern owners to refuse to sell alcohol to people who are under 21, even if they are above the legal drinking age of 18. Police say that it will cut down on crime. The crime they seem most interested in stopping is the alleged practice of young adults buying alcohol for their underage friends.

Read it again, Mark. It says "tavern owners." They want "tavern owners" to refuse service to people who legally are entitled to service.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

Besides, who says that if a 17-year-old can't get an 18-year old to get him alcohol, he won't be able to find a 21-year-old to do it? The logic here is just pathetically stupid.

No it is not. Don´t let your anger cloud your brain and think again.
Most groups of friend have a range of ages of 2 or 3 years of diference. Is your birthday the same age than your friends? I didn´t think so.
So when the oldest turn 18, he can buy alcohol to his 15 years old friends. However if the seller Voluntarily refuses to sell unless he is 21, it is more unlikely that he will pass that alcohol to a 15 years old guy. I mean, most 21 years old guys don´t go out with 15 years old guys.

Ridiculous. If there is anyone here with "clouded thinking," it is you and the rest who seem to think this will solve any problems.

Your "plan" works great for a perfect scenario, but there ARE people whose social groups span enough years to make this restriction fail.

You still have not addressed the stupidity, unfairness, and illogic of refusing to sell a legal item to a person who may legally buy it. That would be like telling someone that at 18 he can have a driver's license, NOT changing the law to require that he be 21, and then telling him that you simply don't want to give him his license for three more years.

If you think that the problems are being caused by those from 18-21 buying alcohol for those under 18, you go after the people who are providing the alcohol to the under-18s. There are bars and stores everywhere that get caught when their clerks sell to those under 21 in the U.S. The government does not shut down all the stores. It fines and punishes the OFFENDERS. Not EVERYONE. So why punish those 18, 19 and 20 year olds who DON'T buy for underage drinkers? Why not run educational campaigns to discourage underage drinking instead of restricting the rights of those who are of legal age?

Since you cannot prove that there will be no 17-year-olds successfully asking 21-year-olds to buy them alcohol, you cannot demonstrate the utility of this stupid, stupid policy.

If the government believes it's such a problem, they should enforce the laws against minors' possession of alcohol. They already exist by virtue of there being a legal drinking age of 18. If people don't obey that law, what makes you think pubs will obey a VOLUNTARY REQUEST which is NOT law?!

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[MarkM 0]

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Read it again, Mark. It says "tavern owners." They want "tavern owners" to refuse service to people who legally are entitled to service.

Ahh well then, that's just stupid. What, is some 18 year old going to run out of the pub and hand his underage buds drinks?

Bartender: "What'll you have?"
Patron: "Gimme 20 ales old chum in plastic cups."