Ahhhh.......whiiiiiners can't take what they dish out

[turtlespeed 226]

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Interesting

That is interesting. Also a good indicator of what a red herring this whole story is.

What? You HAVE to be joking. I guess if you support someone, even someone at Kerry's level, you become blind and closeminded.

Kev, what if what they say is true?
Do you think a person can change that much?

He can't even make up his own mind. The polls of what his party's "larger contributors" is all he considers. All he ever does is try to keep people electing him.

Lawyers are trained on how to distort the truth to effectively prove innocence - even when the very same lawyer KNOWS that their client is guilty. What kind of lies do you think he would be telling?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

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Kev, what if what they say is true?

That's the point. There are people who served with him for him, there are people who served at the same time against him. Basically, to me, it's a non-issue. It's all he said she said politics as usual.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Kev, what if what they say is true?

That's the point. There are people who served with him for him, there are people who served at the same time against him. Basically, to me, it's a non-issue. It's all he said she said politics as usual.

You don't see a mojority thing going on here?

For instance - if you are in a room full of say 100 people - all of whom served with you- and 95% think you are unfit to do something - wouldn't it make sense to at least listen to what they have to say, as opposed to blindly following and disregaurding what they say because they don't agree with your view?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

How am I blindly following by not considering EITHER side of this issue? And how does Swift Boat Veterans for Truth comprise 95% of the people who served with Kerry? I'm pretty sure that none of them actually served in his command. But the actual crew from his boat came out in support of him.

As a matter of fact, many of those opposed to him have openly stated that they didn't even know him while there, they're opposed to his congressional testimony to congress in 1971,

So, if I were going to judge the credibility of which group to believe, I would choose the people who served under his command. But in any case, both sides are just stating their opinions and I don't really care about any of their 30+ year old impressions of Kerry.

[Ron 10]

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As a matter of fact, many of those opposed to him have openly stated that they didn't even know him while there, they're opposed to his congressional testimony to congress in 1971,

So people who were in the same situation that he was in claim he is a jerk for what he did...And they would know since they were in the same situationa s him...

And they don't have any credibility?

BTW the folks for Kerry...Well it would be hard for me not to support a guy I served with ...I maen think of all the perks of having a friend as President?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 3,112]

>And they don't have any credibility?

The reason they don't have any credibility is that they contradict themselves. Hibbard and Elliott both gave Kerry glowing recommendations during the war; Elliott defended his record in 1996, well after his speeches about atrocities in Vietnam. Then there came the whole Elliot condemning Kerry, then recanting, then re-recanting thing.

So when were they telling the truth? When they were writing glowing recommendations and defending him against charges of war crimes, or when they were participating in a GOP-bankrolled attack against him? I suppose conservatives will believe that they've been lying until 2004 and have finally "seen the light" and are just now admitting the truth. I suppose liberals will think they've been telling the truth all along and were just bamboozled by a powerful group of campaigners. Personally I think it just makes them less credible overall.

[TheAnvil 0]

Not really bill. A little familiarity with the Navy fitness report system might shed a bit of light on that.

The old fitness reporting system for Naval officers of the Vietnam era was pretty damned well broken - and was only recently reformed. EVERYONE got some nice write ups. Everyone also knew that certain phrases in the write-ups were what separated the loooooosers from the genuine hot runners. It's quite feasible for sKerry to have gotten some excellent looking write-ups. He would have actually had to TRY HARD NOT to get good evaluations. Granted, he purportedly did some pretty dumbass things, but it really, really, REALLY took a lot to get a bad evaluation back then - and still does today, for that matter. When I was a line officer on surface combatants I knew folks that had nice-sounding write ups in the evaluations that I wouldn't trust to proofread the title page of my term paper. It's the certain phrases and characteristics between the lines that you had to look for.

Cheezy? No shyte. True - absolutely.

Beers to all,

Vinny the Anvil

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,112]

>EVERYONE got some nice write ups.

Yet he said exactly the same thing in 2003, before a heavy Bush contributor forked over the money to start Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

"I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that. . . . (It) was pretty courageous to turn into an ambush even though you usually find no more than two or three people there."

So, OK, he lied on the Navy paperwork because everyone did it. I can accept that. Why did he lie decades later, in a statment that was completely outside the Navy system?

[Ron 10]

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So when were they telling the truth? When they were writing glowing recommendations and defending him against charges of war crimes, or when they were participating in a GOP-bankrolled attack against him? I suppose conservatives will believe that they've been lying until 2004 and have finally "seen the light" and are just now admitting the truth. I suppose liberals will think they've been telling the truth all along and were just bamboozled by a powerful group of campaigners. Personally I think it just makes them less credible overall.

They are less credible...But then again, Kerry himself both did and didn't commit war crimes.

If I was with Kerry and he said we had commited war crimes, hell, I'd say the were false to protect myself. However that would not change the facts.

Also there is a BIG difference between defending a guy, and defending a guy that could become President.

If I was asked about a friend for a job interview...I might not tell the guy about the drunken 4 day weekend driving around Mexico picking up cheap hookers and booze.

But if that same guy was running for President, and claiming to never had been to Mexico and that he never drank...Well it is a different story.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[TheAnvil 0]

Hmm...From Brit Hume (go to the bottom)

Truth be told I'm not really concerned about Kerry's service, though I think there are some issues there. He went - good for him. He probably did some things he regrets while in uniform - understandable. Bronze and silver stars have never been given away lightly. Army/Navy achievement medals - sure, in some cases. Silver/Bronze stars - no. Anyhoo, t'was he that chose to make it a centerpiece in his campaign, so he has only himself to blame that it's under scrutiny. Come to think of it, that seems to be the only experience he has to tout. It's his post-war treason that disturbs and angers me - among other things...many, many other things...

Vinny the Anvil

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Ron 10]

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Bronze and silver stars have never been given away lightly.

Uh not true really.

I know a few guys that got Bronze stars for being E-7's and officers in a combat area...They were just part of the unit.

I was at an inspection when I asked a buddy of mine about his Bronze star...He told me it was a BS award, but it was promotion points.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[TheAnvil 0]

You've got to be shitting me! That makes me sick as hell. And I though end of tour awards were crocks - this takes the cake. Who the hell signed off on those?

Vinny the Anvil

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[jimbarry 0]

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You've got to be shitting me!

And it's not the first time. in 1947 every single WWII infantryman who had been awarded the CIB (combat inf badge) was retroactively awarded the bronze star.

no doubt most went thru some brutal fighting (and no way i'm in a positon to say), but *every* single infantryman's actions rose to the level of the bronze star? every single one?

Want to get more sick? Make sure you read SGT Casey's quote in that article.

i guess gone are the days when we awarded heroism on merit. now it depends on how far you are up the base pay chart?? please say it isn't so.