Farmer McNasty with a twist?

[Kennedy 0]

http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/Stories/0,1413,164%257E8312%257E2312094,00.html

Denver Skydivers vs. Brush Livestock, Brush Municipal Airport

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[miked10270 0]

OK, I read it.

Personally I don't see Denver Skydivers having a leg to stand on with regard to them using THEIR down time to shoot weapons in the airport.

Firstly, is the place an airport / skydiving centre or a shooting range. I don't see the 2 activities being in any way compatible!!!!

If skydivers can shoot on the airport when they're not jumping, then can other folk at the airport shoot when they're no doing whatever it is they're there for.

Let's be blunt. we'd be the FIRST to complain good and loud if folk were firing guns into the air anywhere near where we were skydiving. Suppose for the moment that "Brush Livestock" became "Brush Skeet Shooting Range" (open every day)? with a bunch of yahoos shooting into the air in which I'm flying. Yeah, you bet you'd hear me, and any canopy damage or personal injury as a result of the skeet shooting activity would likely be met with a round of drinks... Like... Molotov Cocktails!

I also sympathise with Brush Livestock in that if I were running a business which involved keeping livestock then while I'd accept than "out" landings on my property would be simply a hazard of operating my business next to a skydiving centre, to the occasional mild distress to my animals. What I WOULDN'T want is folk wilfully making loud bangs and letting bullets fly next to my livestock. Not anymore than I'd accept folk making loud bangs and letting bullets fly into the air where I'm skydiving.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to shoot guns, then go away and shoot guns somewhere else.

Mike.

.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Botellines 0]

A gun is not a toy.

[JohnMitchell 16]

I've never been to this DZ, so I don't know the physical layout, but it is very easy to shoot shotguns safely. The shot doesn't travel very far compared to even a .22 bullet. Are they being safe and responsible with their firearms? Or are they firing towards buildings, cows, property, whatever?

I jumped for years in Cedar Valley, Utah, where there was open sage brush desert in almosat every direction. We shot a lot of everything during weather holds. We never put a bullet hole in an airplane or person.

I wasn't surprised by the local politician's comment about the shooting sports destroying the family atmosphere of the airport. Most shooters I know are responsible and very family oreinted. Shooting sports are one of many things our whole family participates in. I'm sure the politician is simply anti-gun.

[Botellines 0]

Probably the problem is that not everybody feels comfortable being around guns, especially if those guns are being used.
If there are childrens around, having weapons drawn is an invitation to disaster.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Quote

Probably the problem is that not everybody feels comfortable being around guns, especially if those guns are being used.
If there are childrens around, having weapons drawn is an invitation to disaster.

I feel it's a situation similar to having children around water or street traffic or any other potential hazard. The hazard has to be managed or contained, the children have to be watched, and at an early age, the children need to be educated about safe behaviour. Since we are talking about an airport, I hope to God no one lets their toddler just roam. A gun isn't the only hazard to a child at an airport. The shooting area needs to be defined and contained. Every responsible shooter knows not only his target, but what's behind it.

Every parent I know teaches their kids about traffic safety and fire safety and water safety. Why do so many ignore gun safety? Just because I don't own a car doesn't mean my kid doesn't need to learn to cross the street safely. Teaching gun safety is not teaching them how to use a gun or how to bea "blood thirsty" animal hunter, anymore than teaching them to watch for cars is a driving lesson. It's teaching them how to be safe around firearms, which are a fact of life in the free world.

I know a few people that are not comfortable around dogs, especially large dogs, especially if those dogs are being walked. Should these people have the right to keep my dogs out of public place, even if I'm there with those dogs legally and responsibly?

In my experience, children are pretty rare at municipal airports, though more common on DZ's. I think the politician was just making the cheap "family values, do it for the children" plea, one of the first refuges of the scoundrel.

Onec again, I don't know the Colorado situation first hand. I seen guns used responsibly, I've seen them used carelessly. I'm all for the former, and I never condone the latter.

[skydyvr 0]

Denver Skydivers is a very secluded DZ, out in the middle of cattle country, and almost nobody uses the airport other than the DZ. Due to the seclusion, there is no practical reason to prohibit the use of firearms on the property when the DZ isn't operating.

This isn't a safety issue, it's just another episode in the long-time feud between the DZO and one of the most assinine Farmer McNastys on the planet.

. . =(_8^(1)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

OK, I read it.

Personally I don't see Denver Skydivers having a leg to stand on with regard to them using THEIR down time to shoot weapons in the airport.

Firstly, is the place an airport / skydiving centre or a shooting range. I don't see the 2 activities being in any way compatible!!!!

The guys in question shoot trap which means using birdshot with a maximum range of 175-200 yards. That's not enough for pellets to land off airport property.

Quote

If skydivers can shoot on the airport when they're not jumping, then can other folk at the airport shoot when they're no doing whatever it is they're there for.

The airport is in rural Colorado. It doesn't have any regular users apart from Denver Skydivers.

Quote

Let's be blunt. we'd be the FIRST to complain good and loud if folk were firing guns into the air anywhere near where we were skydiving.

If folks we're shooting rifles and pistols in the air I'd get upset. Birdshot doesn't have enough range to be a problem.

[AndyMan 7]

I think the DZO should pick his battles.

As far as I can tell, he runs a drop zone, not a gun club. He would be smart to fight for the rights of his business, not the hobbies of his jumpers.

DZ's get kicked off airports for far less.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[PhreeZone 20]

Lets look at the zoning issue. Would you be upset if someone decided to build a office building in the middle of your neighborhood if it was zoned for residentual only? Airports are unique in that they are zoned only for light commercial business and get all sorts of exemptions for taxes since they are municipal land. If someone was to open a shooting range just off the airport on properly zoned land there would'nt be an issue with that, but allowing activities to happen on land that is not zoned for it is just wrong, no matter what the activity is.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Kennedy 0]

What is it about some people....

Why do you think otherwise responsible, trustworthy people suddenly turn into rednecks, yahoos, and imbeciles the moment the pick up a firearm?

Quote

a bunch of yahoos shooting into the air in which I'm flying. Yeah, you bet you'd hear me, and any canopy damage or personal injury as a result of the skeet shooting activity would likely be met with a round of drinks... Like... Molotov Cocktails!

And I'm sure you have some sort of reasonable explenation as to why you think the skydivers would shoot into "your" air? Remember, no one at the airport ahd a problem with the shooters; only some neighbor with a bug up her ass.

Quote

I also sympathise with Brush Livestock in that if I were running a business which involved keeping livestock then while I'd accept than "out" landings on my property would be simply a hazard of operating my business next to a skydiving centre, to the occasional mild distress to my animals. What I WOULDN'T want is folk wilfully making loud bangs and letting bullets fly next to my livestock. Not anymore than I'd accept folk making loud bangs and letting bullets fly into the air where I'm skydiving.

So you'd accept jumpers landing out and agitating your animals, and planes flying overheard making a racket, but the occasional "bang" would bother you?
(I didn't mention bullets because there is no reason to believe they were firing anywhere near the animals, and because trap and skeet don't involve bullets - those are shotgun sports)

Quote

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to shoot guns, then go away and shoot guns somewhere else.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to drink, then go away and drink somewhere else.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to sun bathe, then go away and sun bathe somewhere else.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to play music, then go away and play music somewhere else.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to go four wheeling, then go away and go four wheeling somewhere else.

Do you see how ridiculous you sound, or should every dropzone only allow the activites you think are ok?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[PhreeZone 20]

Quote

Remember, no one at the airport ahd a problem with the shooters; only some neighbor with a bug up her ass

Have you asked every person at the airport about this?

Quote

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to drink, then go away and drink somewhere else.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to sun bathe, then go away and sun bathe somewhere else.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to play music, then go away and play music somewhere else.

Let's get real eh? If you're at a skydiving centre, then skydive. If you want to go four wheeling, then go away and go four wheeling somewhere else.

Do you see how ridiculous you sound, or should every dropzone only allow the activites you think are ok?

I know of no DZ that will let you go 4 wheeling in their landing area, some DZ's won't let you drink on the airport property, One DZ I went to had to keep noise for since they were under a noise ban, as for the sun bathing... some people need to stay home for that

If the land was zoned for the activity then its not an issue, but with it being public land it is an issue. This is not a gun issue, its a zoning law issue.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Kennedy 0]

I actually agree with you, Phree, teh jumpers there are SOL in terms of shotgunning, but I just love/hate the way some people try to rationalize it.

It's simple. The zoning says it doesn't fly without an exemption.

All that bullshit about "not conducive to a family atmosphere," and being "a danger to jumpers and livestock" is just so damned goofy; it really chaps my ass.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

I know of no DZ that will let you go 4 wheeling in their landing area

Swoop courses can make excellent slalom gates.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 3,116]

> Probably the problem is that not everybody feels comfortable being
>around guns, especially if those guns are being used.

At Lost Prairie this year, a few of us went off to find a secluded lake to go swimming. We were there for about an hour when a few other people got there, hiked a few hundred yards down the lake, and started shooting with a .22 rifle and a larger caliber handgun. I was worried until I went over to see what they were doing (shooting birds in the trees away from the lake, not just shooting in the air, and they weren't falling down drunk) - then it was just annoying.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

A gun is not a toy.

Which means what?

A parachute is also not a toy.

So where does that leave your sentiments about guns?

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

If there are childrens around, having weapons drawn is an invitation to disaster.

I learned to shoot in boyscouts. What a ridiculous statement that is.

[Kennedy 0]

This past weekend I was twenty minutes down the road at some reserve, where there is a shotgun range and a short rifle/pistol range.

Three fathers were out there teaching their sons to shoot. It was a blast (literally - I was giving a tiny .357 magnum the go-rounds).

Everyone there had fun, and went home satisfied, sun burned, and smelling like gun powder. The look on the oldest boy's face was absolutely priceless the first time he made a clay target explode with his .22lr

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mcrocker 0]

Quote

A gun is not a toy.

Guns don't kill people....

PEOPLE kill people....

[juanesky 0]

Quote

Probably the problem is that not everybody feels comfortable being around guns, especially if those guns are being used.
If there are childrens around, having weapons drawn is an invitation to disaster.

Yes indeed, but then on the other end, you have no objections to having pedophiles near children. It's an irony isn't it?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Keith 0]

Quote

I learned to shoot in boyscouts. What a ridiculous statement that is.

Tell that to a the parent of a child who was accidentially shot dead by a peer.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Kennedy 0]

After you tell them, are you going to ask them why they weren't supervising their child, or why they hadn't taught their child to deal with and avoid firearms safely, or why they didn't make sure there would be a responsible adult around the firearm?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Keith 0]

That's my point. To assume that a statement saying not every child has the proper traing to handle weapons is rediculous is well, rediculous. The usual victims of accidental shootings aren't the children who's parents have guns. If people are going to have guns around children, the children should be trained how to safely handle them. That doesn't always happen. That's the fault of the gun owner, not the child.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Kennedy 0]

The original quote was "If there are childrens around, having weapons drawn is an invitation to disaster."

To me, that is a warning against adults having firearms visible around children. Like Kev said, that idea IS ridiculous. There is no way for parents to teach continuing firearm safety other than to have firearms present.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnMitchell 16]

Quote

The original quote was "If there are childrens around, having weapons drawn is an invitation to disaster."

To me, that is a warning against adults having firearms visible around children. Like Kev said, that idea IS ridiculous. There is no way for parents to teach continuing firearm safety other than to have firearms present.

Actually, I can and have taught firearm safety to children without a firearm present. It's the NRA's "Eddie the Eagle" program that teaches children to not touch firearms, to leave the area of a firearm, and to tell an adult. Now, to teach firearm handling, with which all my children are familiar, it helps to be packing some heat. Children with no training, though, are a real hazard around firearms. All children should be trained what not to do, even if their parents don't own guns.