Wow.

[Tonto 1]

Plenty of bitterness and resentment out there lately.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Kennedy 0]

Nah, most of the bitterness and resentment comes out of not thinking.





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witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mikkey 0]

This forum has deteriorated to a "hate fest" for right wingers. In all discussions they dominate by posting in numbers and "shouting" down any attempt of an intelligent discussion. I find it interesting to discuss with people with different views. But lately it is far too aggressive and due to the "numbers" of posts from the right wing club it is really not as interesting as I hoped it would be.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

This forum has deteriorated to a "hate fest" for right wingers. In all discussions they dominate by posting in numbers and "shouting" down any attempt of an intelligent discussion.

It might be truer to admit that there has been a lot of baiting from the left wingers. I'm not sure the numbers are that slanted to one side, either.

It would be nice if people could try to take things less personally.

[Tonto 1]

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This forum has deteriorated to a "hate fest" for right wingers.

Hey, I've thrown plenty of anti-Bush stuff in here as well, you know.
I don't HATE Bush though.

I think, from a world perspective, he's done the American people a diservice in the same way that many South African politicians during the apartheid era had massive (white minority) political support, as well as government support from many nations, but turned ordinary South Africans, both Black and White, into pariahs abroad for not doing more to put an end to apartheid. At the time, that same questionable patriotism and Nationalism was called into play. "*Insert country name here*- Love it, or leave it!" Or "My country, right or wrong!"

I'm amazed to see the change in world opinion on the US in the short 3 years following 9/11, and the slash and burn approach they have taken to historical allies. Some allies for 100's of years, over this one issue of the war on Iraq. From a country that had the sympathy, empathy and support of the world, to one with an increasingly lager mentality internally, and openly critisized abroad for actions that are largely beyond the control of the average American.

I see Americans bickering among themselves about Clinton having done/not done this or that, and Bush having done/not done something similar or something different. I can't help but think that Bush dealt with what happened on 9/11 in a particular way, and that he did things the way he did them because he honestly beleived that was the best thing to do at the time - but that the world isn't happy with that.

Personally, I'm benefitting. With the weaker dollar, I've bought new gear, wingsuits and am planning a trip to the Eloy boogie - something which would have been absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for me to afford a mere 2 years ago, so it's not all bad, I guess. As things stand now, I'm being paid $40 per AFF jump at the current exchange rate, while 2.5 years ago I was earning only $16. Of course, I'm putting the same amount in my pocket. It's how much I can buy in the US which is different.

All this is, after all, only politics, and as we know, politicians have more in common with each other than they'll ever have in common with us - regardless of whether they lean left or right of the line.

I hope in future the clashes on this forum will be more ideological in nature, and a little less personal than they've been recently. It's hating people for what they beleive rather than what they are that's led to most genocide in history. That's something worth considering.

I'd like to thank the greenies for laying down the law. I don't think I'll be questioning any actions they take.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[tunaplanet 0]

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This forum has deteriorated to a "hate fest"

Of course it has. The design of these forums promotes it. What did the mods expect when you give a platform to liberal/conservative extremists to "talk" about politics, religion, guns, etc...?

Oh, and Mikey, ever hear of the pot and kettle analogy?

Forty-two

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"he's done the American people a diservice in the same way that many South African politicians during the apartheid era had massive (white minority) political support, as well as government support from many nations, but turned ordinary South Africans, both Black and White, into pariahs abroad for not doing more to put an end to apartheid."

But apartheid was banished was it not? At least officially, and despite the efforts of the likes of Terreblanche.

The country survived the enormous change that was required. That change process was largely down to an individual who had spent most of his life incarcerated on terrorism charges, but who nevertheless emerged from a prison cell to lead the country through an extremely difficult transition.

People who are looking to radical reforms, and even regime change could do a whole lot worse than to follow South Africa's model.

Just my opinion.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Tonto 1]

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People who are looking to radical reforms, and even regime change could do a whole lot worse than to follow South Africa's model.

Just my opinion.

Why did apartheid fail? Or rather, why did the apartheid government choose to un ban the ANC and other "terrorist" organisations, and release their leaders from prison?

Why would a country with the strongest military on the continent - facing no direct threat from the west - reform a 48 year policy of seperate development?

Ecconomics? The Rand was twice as strong then as it is now. Guilt? Yeah right. We did it cos it was the right thing to do.. World opinion? After 48 years and developing our own arms industry after the UN arms embargo?

I think it was because (white) South Africans were tired of not being part of the world. Of not being able to justify their governments domestic policies. Of having their sons off into Africa in Namibia, Angola, Mozambique without getting their passports stamped. Of not being able to have a life even 12 years after national service because of being called up to do "camps."

We got tired. That started to show when fewer and fewer people voted. People never showed up for national service. Never went to camps. Never paid taxes. Left the country for the UK, for OZ, for Canada, and took their brains with them.

It was only when the National party realised that they were at the end of the road that they chose to try "power sharing" with the black majority. Nelson Mandela did a great job at nation building. He made us feel like we belonged to a country we could be proud of for the 1st time in our lives.

Now we're faced with other problems - Like HIV/AIDS.
That's the new struggle. Hopefully we'll remain united against a desease which shows no prejudice. But that's our story. Yours, and that of the US, is still being written.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Whatever the reasons, I reckon abandoning apartheid was the right thing to do. I like to think it was a morally the right thing to do, but it doesn't really matter now......... Its gone and after the period of Truth and Reconciliation, the country has returned to an albeit fragile peace.
Compare the transition of SA to that of Zimbabwe and you get something of an idea of what could have been, had things not gone so well for you guys.

"But that's our story. Yours, and that of the US, is still being written."
Ah yes, but I can't help feeling the final chapter in the Book of the British Empire is already on its way to the publishers, along with the preface for the New American Century.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[skydyvr 0]

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This forum has deteriorated to a "hate fest" for right wingers.

Do you actually eat a big bowl of cornmeal for breakfast every morning?

. . =(_8^(1)

[Skyrad 0]

To tell you the truth Tonto, I have to agree, the pound dollar thing is great, I got a whole brand new rig tailor made for half price As for the Bush Kerry thing, I'm pretty board of hearing about it. Theres alot more things going on in the world that are far more interesting.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Fast 0]

I have to agree with you on a bit of that. All to often it would seem that people take the argument to the personal level. I read the SC forum because it amuses me and I like to keep abreast on what people are arguing about these days.

I, for the record am a middle ground person with sways in both directions depending on the issue, don't like to get overly involved in the arguments because thats what they are.

One of the problems is that people are all to often put in a position where they either don't want to or don't think they can come to a conclusion that something they belive may not be perfect. Its hard to admit that you were wrong (regardless of what side of the fence you sit on.) Rather than accept that your view was misconstrued or whatever it is often easier to just go on the offensive and attack a persons choice of words, parts of thier argument (rather than the spirit of it) or the person themseleves. Be this because of a lack of time or desire to do a little research to back up a viewpoint or because the person is feeling threatened it doesn't actually provide a constructive environment for debate on an actual topic.

Don't get me wrong there is a time and place to just watch people argue about stuff w/ complete faith in thier point of view, it just gets a little old if there isn't some serious discussion thrown in with some actuall facts used to back up some of the argument. Not that I would suggest there is none of that, it just seems that more often than not things degrade faster than they proceed on a consturctive level..


ahhh well.. /rant off

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

This forum has deteriorated to a "hate fest" for right wingers. In all discussions they dominate by posting in numbers and "shouting" down any attempt of an intelligent discussion. I find it interesting to discuss with people with different views. But lately it is far too aggressive and due to the "numbers" of posts from the right wing club it is really not as interesting as I hoped it would be.

Looking at the forum through liberal colored glasses.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am