For those that want God out of the White House....

[Ron 10]

It does not look like Kerry is your man.

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http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/25/kerry.sunday.reut/index.html COLUMBUS, Ohio (Reuters) -- Presidential candidate John Kerry on Sunday courted the black vote, a major Democratic constituency that polls show he has yet to excite, by assuring churchgoers he shared their "common future, hopes and dreams."

The Roman Catholic senator from Massachusetts visited the nondenominational First Church of God in Columbus where Bishop Timothy Clarke told an overwhelmingly black congregation of more than 2,500 that he would not endorse Kerry or President Bush, but urged his parishioners to get out and vote.

Kerry's introduction drew a protest from one member who stood and shouted, "Sit down ... you big phony," before he was hustled out clutching a Bible.

What about free speech?

Later, at the northeastern suburban home of Jessie and Janet Aikens, a black couple who are raising their 5-year-old grandson Javon, Kerry's discussion of jobs and the economy was briefly interrupted by several dozen chanting Republican demonstrators.

"I'm here to hear the voices of democracy," Kerry said. "Sometimes they are a little loud ... What we really need to do in America, frankly, is stop shouting at each other and start listening to each other."

Told that Bush had won the ward by just 12 votes in 2000, Kerry shot back: "Well, we're going to change that."

At the third stop on his trek to the Democratic convention in Boston where he will be formally nominated as Bush's opponent in the November 2 election, Kerry quoted scripture, black poet Langston Hughes and President John Kennedy to the church congregation. (Special Report: America Votes 2004, the Democratic convention; Gallery: From Boston, convention eve in pictures)

"It is written, what does it mean my brother if you have faith if there are no deeds? Faith without works is dead," he said, a subtle slap at Bush without mentioning the president's name.

'Brief fragile moment'
Kerry described his own candidacy as a "brief fragile moment that God gave us on earth to make a difference."

"This is our journey, not my journey," he told the church congregation. "I came here this morning to praise his name and share with you our common future, our humanity, our hopes and our dreams."

The Democratic candidate has won around 90 percent of the black vote in recent presidential elections, but at issue is how many members of that key constituency Kerry can turn out.

Opinion polls have shown that Kerry, a New Englander who attended private schools, graduated from Yale, volunteered for the Vietnam War and has served almost two decades in the Senate, has yet to excite his African-American base.

A BET/CBS News poll of 986 black Americans released last week found that Kerry led Bush, the Republican incumbent, by eight to one, but most said they were just "satisfied" having Kerry atop the ticket.

Democrats are hoping a higher minority turnout, coupled with support from working white families, will help land southern states such as Florida in the Democratic camp and tip northern industrial states such as Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania in their favor.

Most Democrats also believe their road to the White House passes through Ohio, a critical battleground state. No Republican has won the presidency without winning Ohio.

A poll published on Sunday in the Columbus Dispatch showed Bush and Kerry running neck and neck. The survey, with a margin of error of plus or minus two percentage points, put Bush at 47 percent, Kerry at 44 percent and independent candidate Ralph Nader at 2 percent.

Despite millions of dollars spent on advertising by both camps, the poll's results mirrored those of a Dispatch survey published in April.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,153]

You miss the point. Most could not care less what religious beliefs are exercised in the White House. We just don't want those beliefs and associated morality FORCED on us.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Shotgun 1]

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It does not look like Kerry is your man.

I never had any reason to think he was.

[Zennie 0]

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You miss the point. Most could not care less what religious beliefs are exercised in the White House. We just don't want those beliefs and associated morality FORCED on us.

Ding!

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[turtlespeed 226]

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You miss the point. Most could not care less what religious beliefs are exercised in the White House. We just don't want those beliefs and associated morality FORCED on us.

Ding!

DONG !

All that means is neither one is a good choice for that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Zenister 0]

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You miss the point. Most could not care less what religious beliefs are exercised in the White House. We just don't want those beliefs and associated morality FORCED on us.

Ding!

DONG !

All that means is neither one is a good choice for that.

this sooooooo isnt news, but who else will be elected?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[turtlespeed 226]

You could write ME in.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Zenister 0]

i should have emphasized the will part....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[mnealtx 0]

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You miss the point. Most could not care less what religious beliefs are exercised in the White House. We just don't want those beliefs and associated morality FORCED on us.

Forgive me, because I've been working overseas...but I haven't seen anything in the news OR in any posts about the armed guards FORCING you to go to church...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,153]

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You miss the point. Most could not care less what religious beliefs are exercised in the White House. We just don't want those beliefs and associated morality FORCED on us.

Forgive me, because I've been working overseas...but I haven't seen anything in the news OR in any posts about the armed guards FORCING you to go to church...

You miss the point too. Legislation proposed or enacted because it is in line with Bush/Ashcroft's religious beliefs IS forcing their morality on the people.

Same sex marriage amendment
Stem cell research ban
...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peregrinerose 0]

I don't understand why morality is a problem. If there's actually a presidential candidtate who has some form of ethical code and stands by it, this is a good thing. Doesn't mean he expects everyone to agree with him, even he said in his own speech that we need to do more listening to each other. He's right.

I'm as non Christian as many others on here, but I don't give a flying rat's ass what beliefs others have as long as there is a high code of behavior involved. Whether this is as part of a religion or not.

I'm still undecided in this election, leaning toward Bush, but have to respect this coming from Kerry.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhillyKev 0]

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I don't understand why morality is a problem. If there's actually a presidential candidtate who has some form of ethical code and stands by it, this is a good thing.

Banning stem cell research because "I know in my heart it is wrong" is bad. Spending tax dollars clothing a statue of Lady Justice so that you're not embarassed by it is bad. Enacting ridiculously high personal fines against broadcasters for subjective indecency is bad. Cutting off funding to organizations in develping countries that treat AIDS and provide contraception education because they also don't refuse to provide abortions is bad. I could go on.

[freeflybella 0]

Amen.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[pajarito 0]

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Banning stem cell research because "I know in my heart it is wrong" is bad.

You know…I’m going to go out on a limb and say, even though I don’t know the context of this quote, that there’s probably a lot more to the person’s argument against “embryo” stem cell research than merely “I know in my heart it is wrong.”

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Spending tax dollars clothing a statue of Lady Justice so that you're not embarassed by it is bad.

I don’t think it was a good idea to spend tax dollars for this and I probably would have used my own money if it bothered me that much, however, I doubt that Ashcroft is the first to take the liberty of doing something like this. Ashcroft’s just happened to be of a religious or morality issue.

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Enacting ridiculously high personal fines against broadcasters for subjective indecency is bad.

The fines must be high in order to make them effective. For example, Atlanta pollutes the Chattahoochee River and those of us downstream suffer the effects. They don’t care at all and pay tens of thousands of dollars per day in fines. They’d rather pay the fines because it doesn’t even sting and not fix their problems. As a matter of fact, they just keep expanding and the problems increase yearly. Anyway, there also has to be some standard for decency in broadcast media. If you want to show your ass to the world, do it on cable.

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Cutting off funding to organizations in develping countries that treat AIDS and provide contraception education because they also don't refuse to provide abortions is bad. I could go on.

That’s a complicated one. If we’re just talking about “developing” countries, it might be more beneficial, in the long run, to continue funding treatment of AIDS and try and convince them otherwise about abortions at a later date.

[PhillyKev 0]

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You know…I’m going to go out on a limb and say, even though I don’t know the context of this quote, that there’s probably a lot more to the person’s argument against “embryo” stem cell research than merely “I know in my heart it is wrong.”

Please tell me what the argument could possibly be? The only opposition to it I've ever heard is religious in nature.

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Ashcroft’s just happened to be of a religious or morality issue.

Along with many other decisions he has made in his capacity as Attorney General.

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The fines must be high in order to make them effective.

I wasn't specifically referring to the fines being high, but that they will be levied against the individuals. Meaning, if you happen to curse while a news camera is on you, and they don't edit it out, you could be personally fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for EVERY station it airs on. Imagine if it were shown nation wide!

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Anyway, there also has to be some standard for decency in broadcast media.

Fine, then define it. Don't use loose, subjective, definitions then disallow any challenge to the fines. Don't base fines on complaints from people, base them on the actual context. Don't base them on your opinion of the broadcaster, base them on the broadcast.

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If we’re just talking about “developing” countries, it might be more beneficial, in the long run, to continue funding treatment of AIDS and try and convince them otherwise about abortions at a later date.

So, we should try to convince them later of what? To do something that we don't? You want our executive branch to try to convince other countries to ban abortions when we don't here? You want him to force his will, which our checks and balances have stopped him so far from doing here, onto other nations?

[rehmwa 2]

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Same sex marriage amendment
Stem cell research ban
...

Murder
Stealing
Purjury
(also against their religious beliefs)

your point is specious

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[markd_nscr986 0]

***Legislation proposed or enacted because it is in line with Bush/Ashcroft's religious beliefs IS forcing their morality on the people.


In so far as Congress allows them to......last I recall we dont call him 'King George"

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[peregrinerose 0]

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Banning stem cell research because "I know in my heart it is wrong" is bad. Spending tax dollars clothing a statue of Lady Justice so that you're not embarassed by it is bad. Enacting ridiculously high personal fines against broadcasters for subjective indecency is bad. Cutting off funding to organizations in develping countries that treat AIDS and provide contraception education because they also don't refuse to provide abortions is bad. I could go on.

There are many people who believe this regardless of religious beliefs, and people with religious beliefs who do not adhere to these things. Look at Kerry, Roman Catholic, but for abortion rights. A person's morality and belief system is individualized. Religion may influence it, but so what? You vote on the issues and which candidate leans more along the lines of what you believe is important. If you disagree with Bush's more stupid policies, don't vote for him. Both Bush and Kerry are religious, but obviously very different stances on issues.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[turtlespeed 226]

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Look at Kerry, Roman Catholic, but for abortion rights. A person's morality and belief system is individualized.

Actually, No. That is incorrect -

He said that he was against abortion, PERSONALLY, but was for it POLITICALLY.

Yeah - I thought it was an oxymoron too.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jumper03 0]

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Look at Kerry, Roman Catholic, but for abortion rights. A person's morality and belief system is individualized.

Actually, No. That is incorrect -

He said that he was against abortion, PERSONALLY, but was for it POLITICALLY.

Yeah - I thought it was an oxymoron too.

Sounds Libertarian to me....
i.e. I don't smoke either pot or cigarettes. But if anyone else wants to - go right ahead.

Jump

Scars remind us that the past is real

[pajarito 0]

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Actually, No. That is incorrect -

He said that he was against abortion, PERSONALLY, but was for it POLITICALLY.

Yeah - I thought it was an oxymoron too.

Par for the course in Kerry's world, though. Whichever way the wind blows.

[peregrinerose 0]

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In Reply To
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Look at Kerry, Roman Catholic, but for abortion rights. A person's morality and belief system is individualized.

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Actually, No. That is incorrect -

He said that he was against abortion, PERSONALLY, but was for it POLITICALLY.

Yeah - I thought it was an oxymoron too.

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I said he was for abortion rights, not for abortion. I don't see this as being an oxymoron. I don't smoke, but have no problem with other people having the right to do so. I can't stand soap operas but have no desire to put forth a political bill suppressing soap operas from television viewing. There are a lot of things that you can dislike or be against but not be against robbing everyone else of that thing.

I don't even like Kerry, and think he's a total flake, but can sort of understand this end of things. And the concept of abortion (from a medical stance) truly disgusts me.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhillyKev 0]

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I said he was for abortion rights, not for abortion. I don't see this as being an oxymoron. I don't smoke, but have no problem with other people having the right to do so. I can't stand soap operas but have no desire to put forth a political bill suppressing soap operas from television viewing. There are a lot of things that you can dislike or be against but not be against robbing everyone else of that thing.

And that is the point. Bush has a habit of being opposed to things that other people are not and forcing people to his will. His supporters call that strong leadership. I call that tyranny.

[pajarito 0]

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Please tell me what the argument could possibly be? The only opposition to it I've ever heard is religious in nature.

In the absence of facts proving otherwise (as is the case today), the assumption that life begins at conception isn’t necessarily a religious one. Based on this assumption, embryonic stem cell research requires the unnecessary termination of a human life and, therefore, might be considered wrong. I believe that to be the case but the basis of my belief isn’t primarily religious in nature although I also, in my heart, believe that it is wrong.

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Along with many other decisions he has made in his capacity as Attorney General.

Ok…but I was only referring to the statue issue that was mentioned.

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I wasn't specifically referring to the fines being high, but that they will be levied against the individuals. Meaning, if you happen to curse while a news camera is on you, and they don't edit it out, you could be personally fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for EVERY station it airs on. Imagine if it were shown nation wide!

I guess that might encourage personal responsibility and accountability especially when you’re a public figure in the spotlight. Sometimes, adults need to be told to “grow up” just like kids.

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Fine, then define it. Don't use loose, subjective, definitions then disallow any challenge to the fines. Don't base fines on complaints from people, base them on the actual context. Don't base them on your opinion of the broadcaster, base them on the broadcast.

The problem is that kind of stuff in reference to what’s appropriate or not changes over time. Anyway, like I said before, if you want to show your ass, buy some time on a cable network.

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So, we should try to convince them later of what? To do something that we don't? You want our executive branch to try to convince other countries to ban abortions when we don't here? You want him to force his will, which our checks and balances have stopped him so far from doing here, onto other nations?

Of course, you’d want the money you’re spending on others to also be in your interest.

[peregrinerose 0]

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And that is the point. Bush has a habit of being opposed to things that other people are not and forcing people to his will. His supporters call that strong leadership. I call that tyranny.

You don't like Bush, don't vote for him. That's why we have an electoral system and not monarchy. He was voted in (barely), so that is what a majority of the electoral college wanted, a 'tyrant'. If that isn't what the population wants now, he won't be re-elected.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda