The Patriot Act...not just for terrorists anymore.

[PhillyKev 0]

Maybe RIAA can use this tactic. Accuse someone of copyright infringement, and the FBI invokes the Patriot Act to obtain financial records from your ISP that would otherwise not be granted under a search warrant.

Quote

And perhaps most disturbing of all, it was later revealed that the FBI invoked a provision of the USA Patriot Act to obtain financial records from his ISP.

http://www.sg1archive.com/nightmare.shtml

[Lindsey 0]

DAMN! I wonder how much of this kind of thing we are going to tolerate....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Botellines 0]

4 months....

OR

4 years and 4 months...

[falxori 0]

Quote

4 months....

OR

4 years and 4 months...

i doubt it.
its one of those things that are much easier to do than cancel...

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

4 months....

OR

4 years and 4 months...

I'd love to hear the rationalization for this comment. Is there one -- aside from your vehement hatred of Bush?

. . =(_8^(1)

[Lindsey 0]

Quote

4 months....

OR

4 years and 4 months...

I wish it would be that simple, but I'm afraid that we've created a larger monster than one election will undo....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[turtlespeed 226]

Here is a prediction -

Book mark it -

EVEN IF sKerry gets elected as President, the Patriot ACT will not fade. In fact, My prediction is that if sKerry is elected - you will lose more freedoms than you ever would have if Bush were Re-elected.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

EVEN IF sKerry gets elected as President, the Patriot ACT will not fade. In fact, My prediction is that if sKerry is elected - you will lose more freedoms than you ever would have if Bush were Re-elected.

I tend to agree with you. I'd prefer neither, and to actually _gain_ some freedom, but I think that Kerry is even more anti-Liberty than Bush.

Now if we could just get that skydiver from Texas elected....

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Botellines 0]

Quote

Quote

4 months....

OR

4 years and 4 months...

I'd love to hear the rationalization for this comment. Is there one -- aside from your vehement hatred of Bush?

Actually there is no rationalization, it was just my vehemented hatred of Bush.
As falxori sais the patriot act is one of those things that are much easily done than undone, so i guess you are stucked with it for longer than my beloved "arbusto"

I just wanted to point out that those "temporary" supressions of liberties and freedom are more likely to happen with a president who is constantly striving for war than for one that is not.
Now i am puzzle because "Arbustito" is supposed to be the peace president.

[FallRate 0]

The most contentious clauses in the Patriot Act are set to expire on December 31, 2005. While a group of ten Republicans in the Senate have put forth a bill to make these permanent, it is a measure that does not seem to have sufficient support overall. So it does appear that the Patriot Act will fade away.

www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/RL32186.pdf

FallRate

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Quote

4 months....

OR

4 years and 4 months...

I'd love to hear the rationalization for this comment. Is there one -- aside from your vehement hatred of Bush?

Kerry said...

Quote

If I’m elected President, we will put an end to “sneak and peak” searches which permit law enforcement to conduct a secret search and seize evidence without notification. Agents can break into a home or business to take photos, seize property, copy computer files, or load a secret keystroke detector on a computer. These searches should be limited only to the most rare circumstances. And law enforcement should provide notice of the search within seven days, unless a court extends the period of notification.

We will eliminate the potential of fishing expeditions into people’s library and business records. If the FBI wants to make these kinds of investigations, they will need a warrant issued by a judge and evidence that they are looking into an agent of a foreign power.

We will provide Americans with protections from wiretaps, prevent local police officers from spying on innocent people, and that ensures our courts guarantee appropriate national security protections."

...and I'm sure someone will now say this is a flip flop because he voted for the Patriot Act. BZZZZTTTT.

The patriot act includes a sunset provision in 12/05. In a floor speech Kerry made the day he voted for the Patiot Act, which he helped to author, he said:

"I am pleased at the compromise we have reached on the antiterrorism legislation, as a whole, which includes the sunset provision on the wiretapping and electronic surveillance component. It has been a source of considerable concern for people, and I think the sunset provision provides Congress a chance to come back and measure the record appropriately, and that is appropriate."
So, on the day he cast his vote for the Patriot Act, he specifically called out his 'concern' about the powers of surveillance granted in the act, and said it would be 'appropriate' for Congress to 'come back and measure the record.'

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Quote

Quote

4 months....

OR

4 years and 4 months...

I'd love to hear the rationalization for this comment. Is there one -- aside from your vehement hatred of Bush?

Kerry said...

Quote

If I’m elected President, we will put an end to “sneak and peak” searches which permit law enforcement to conduct a secret search and seize evidence without notification. Agents can break into a home or business to take photos, seize property, copy computer files, or load a secret keystroke detector on a computer. These searches should be limited only to the most rare circumstances. And law enforcement should provide notice of the search within seven days, unless a court extends the period of notification.

We will eliminate the potential of fishing expeditions into people’s library and business records. If the FBI wants to make these kinds of investigations, they will need a warrant issued by a judge and evidence that they are looking into an agent of a foreign power.

We will provide Americans with protections from wiretaps, prevent local police officers from spying on innocent people, and that ensures our courts guarantee appropriate national security protections."

...and I'm sure someone will now say this is a flip flop because he voted for the Patriot Act. BZZZZTTTT.

The patriot act includes a sunset provision in 12/05. In a floor speech Kerry made the day he voted for the Patiot Act, which he helped to author, he said:

"I am pleased at the compromise we have reached on the antiterrorism legislation, as a whole, which includes the sunset provision on the wiretapping and electronic surveillance component. It has been a source of considerable concern for people, and I think the sunset provision provides Congress a chance to come back and measure the record appropriately, and that is appropriate."
So, on the day he cast his vote for the Patriot Act, he specifically called out his 'concern' about the powers of surveillance granted in the act, and said it would be 'appropriate' for Congress to 'come back and measure the record.'

Wow, you mean he actually did something in office - That must have been before he decided to run for office.

How much has he done since?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Wow, you mean he actually did something in office - That must have been before he decided to run for office.

How much has he done since?

Taken less vacation than GWB

[PhreeZone 20]

>Taken less vacation than GWB

GWB had another bike accident yesterday on his Ranch. I think his bike privilages need revoked for a while

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

>Taken less vacation than GWB

GWB had another bike accident yesterday on his Ranch. I think his bike privilages need revoked for a while

that is ver possible -

However - My question is this - how much responsibility is he shirking to campaign?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[goalie35 0]

[reply"I am pleased at the compromise we have reached on the antiterrorism legislation, as a whole, which includes the sunset provision on the wiretapping and electronic surveillance component. It has been a source of considerable concern for people, and I think the sunset provision provides Congress a chance to come back and measure the record appropriately, and that is appropriate."
So, on the day he cast his vote for the Patriot Act, he specifically called out his 'concern' about the powers of surveillance granted in the act, and said it would be 'appropriate' for Congress to 'come back and measure the record.'

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

I just wanted to point out that those "temporary" supressions of liberties and freedom are more likely to happen with a president who is constantly striving for war than for one that is not.

We are going to have an uphill battle concerning abuses of the Patriot Act regardless of who's in office.

. . =(_8^(1)

[jdhill 0]

As the PA is used more and more, you will find more and more challenges to it in the Court... There are many parts of it that will not stand up to judicial scrutiny, IMO.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[PhillyKev 0]

As well as many parts that will not be renewed when they sunset.

[Zennie 0]

Quote

Now if we could just get that skydiver from Texas elected....

That's wild. I had no idea Badnarik skydives. Has his jumpmaster and tandem ratings too.

Wow. I may come back to the fold for that reason alone (well... OK.... plus his policies are much more in line with mine)!

I love the little ad on his page...

"I'm George W. Bush and you can trust ME to run your life..."
"I'm John Kerry and you can trust ME to run your life..."
"I'm Ralph Nader and you can trust ME to run your life..."
"I'm Michael Badnarik and I trust YOU to run your own life."

Sweeeeet....

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[turtlespeed 226]

Tom was talking about me.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

4 months....
OR
4 years and 4 months...

Being in Spain you might have missed the stampede of the Democrats to pass the Patriot Act. It isn't one of the developments of the last 4 years you can blame on evil Bush.

[livendive 8]

Interesting. For some reason I thought someone else got the Libertarian nomination.

Anyhow, I agree with Libertarian doctrine a hell of a lot more often than any of the other parties, but I still find this hilarious.

From the platform on the www.lp.org page:

Quote

We also advocate the privatization of government and quasi-government water supply systems. Only the complete separation of water and the State will prevent future water crises.
...
We oppose creation of new government parks or wilderness and recreation areas. Such parks and areas that already exist should be transferred to non-government ownership
...
Government involvement in traditional parenting responsibilities has weakened families and replaced family-taught morals with government-taught morals. Families and households are private institutions, which should be free from government intrusion and interference.
...
We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation

Having read those, look what public offices the 23 currently elected Liberatians hold in Washington state.

Robert J. Bromley Sumas Mayor
Judy Byrd Peninsula Parks and Recreation Committee
Rob Chase Chase Youth Commission
Mark A. Hamilton Bonney Lake Civil Services Commission Chairman
Eugene P. Hawkridge North Shore School Board District 4
Michael J. Hihn President, King County Water Commission District 125
Greg Holmes Spangle City Council
Ray Huff Granite Falls City Council Position 3
Frank P. Jenkins Pierce County Aging and Long Term Care Advisory Board
Walt Kloefkorn Stevens County Rural Library District Board Trustee
Ron Lahr City of Spokane Community Development Board
Steve LePage Benton Conservation District Supervisor
Scott MacQuarrie South Cle Elum City Council Position 5
Scott MacQuarrie South Cle Elum Town Council
Nick McLauchlan State Elections Board
Bill North North Highline Unincorporated Area Council
Robin Palachuk Spokane Regional Transportation Council Citizen Advisory Committee
Jim Richardson Skamania County Cemetery Commissioner District 3
Don Vandervelde Peninsula Parks and Recreation Committee
Bruce White Kent City Council
Richard Whitmore Chairman Water Resource Interest Council WRIA 1
Jonathan Wright Harbor View Hospital Trustee , Seattle
Derek M. Young Gig Harbor City Council

OK, maybe it's just me. :-)

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

Quote

Being in Spain you might have missed the stampede of the Democrats to pass the Patriot Act. It isn't one of the developments of the last 4 years you can blame on evil Bush.

With the GOP in control of the House, the Senate, and the Oval Office, I can blame anything and/or everything that's happened in the last 4 years on them. :-)

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Zennie 0]

No it's kind of humorous. I'm capable of laughing at myself.

Yes some of the items on the platform are downright kooky. I actually like Badnarik's campaign platform better. I think he did a good job of culling out some of the items that are really sort of out there.

The libertarian newsletters are a hoot!

"Justin Klodhopper wins seat on Maple County Board of Cheese!!!!"

I think if we a little bit more open debating and coverage, we'd actually get a pretty sizable voter interest... which... of course... is why we will always be relegated to Toilet Inspection Standards Committees... because the Republicans and Democrats will never tolerate us getting our message out... and the newsmedia is their little bitch.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon