Kennedy 0
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Quote me one instance where John or anyone else supported giving guns or any other weapon to the mentally ill, adicts, or anyone else not in control of themselves? We want criminals punished and the ill healed as much or more than anyone else.
A quick reply/a question: This birthright is for everyone, right? Including .....everybody. Even the ill ones.
Bonne nuit, will come back to the rest tomorrow. Hey, it's fine to be back
dudeist skydiver # 3105
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If anyone can interpret this, please let me know.
Just follow the tread and you will notice how hard people are working to convince the small rest of the world....But hard work has to be admitted.
dudeist skydiver # 3105
Kennedy 0
QuoteJust follow the tread and you will notice how hard people are working to convince the small rest of the world....But hard work has to be admitted
I read the thread, and I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
QuoteJohn Rich, you must be a lucky man, you really do believe, all your dreams must come me true? One day, the world will be ruled by weapons like in the US?
The first sentence I could not follow, and the second, well, what do you mean when you say "be ruled by weapons like in the US?"
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
JohnRich 4
QuoteJohn Rich, you must be a lucky man, you really do believe, all your dreams must come me true? One day, the world will be ruled by weapons like in the US?
The U.S. is not ruled by weaponry. It's a republic/democracy. Your statement reflects an ignorance about the U.S.
QuoteBut: The birthright of owning weapons transferred into the European countries - funny, but means GB too! - will never work.
Americans and their weapons have had to come save Europe's butt twice in the last century. Because of what people in your own country did to their neighbors.
QuoteWe do not hand over the power to crazy people, people on drugs, on alcohol, hanging around all the day caressing their weapons:
The mentally ill, and those addicted to drugs or alcohol, are just a few of the categories of people prohibited from owning guns.
QuoteThey all have the birthright of owning weapons!
From birth, yes they do. You're not advocating that people be born without any rights at all, are you? As soon as someone, through their actions, proves themselves unfit to continue enjoying certain rights, then those rights are denied them.
QuoteQuoteI find it hard to imagine that anyone could cause a similar casualty toll, 17 dead and a further 17 wounded, even amongst a large group of toddlers, in the same timeframe with a piece of 2x4, or a steak knife. 3-4 minutes is all it took to fire 105 rounds from 4 handguns.
What difference does it make how "fast" it occurs? The news recently has told us of a male nurse in England who has killed 173 people over several years. Is that somehow less horrible, because it took longer for him to accomplish? Is England going to ban nurses to prevent a repeat of this mass murder?
What about the Yorkshire Ripper in the 1970's, who killed 13 people with nothing but a knife? Why didn't England ban knives after this horrible tragedy?
And then in Japan just a couple of years ago, EIGHT children slaughtered by a guy who invaded their school classroom with a knife.
Then there was the naked dude in England somewhere who attacked in a church with a sword -- an off-duty cop (who was of course unarmed) had to use an organ pipe to subdue the crazed naked swordsman!
But eight schoolchildren, killed by a guy with a knife. Do any of you gun-banners understand how rare multiple firearm killings are? They are FAR in the minority of all gun crimes.
But when people go nuts with knives, it seems, they go big!
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"
Newbie 0
QuoteOk maybe it sounded a bit extreame. You're right Wimbledon is a nice area, I grew up in Peckham and Brixton, sounds like alot has changed there. But I'm sick of walking down the road with pissed out of they're head 15 year olds giving it the large, and In, ger, lund....Ing, ger, lund....Ing, ger,lund.....
The STD thing is very real and so is violent crime, most of it for no reason other than mindless violence. Maybe I'm slightly jundice working in a A&E dealing with little old ladies that have had the shit kicked out of them for the pitence in their purses (happens all the time) or piss heads with fractured 5th MCs where they've punched a wall or their missus. I've also had a crap week, and only two days off in two months, guess I just need a break.
no i hear you - there are certainly bad, messed up elements to things here - i guess it goes with the territory (large, sprawling, metropolitan city etc). I guess you working on the "front line" will get to see more of this than most of us, so i appreciate where you are coming from.
Book some time off though man! Summer is here, finally, and if nothing, take off a few days to relax in the park and just do nothing, head to the dz etc etc. Nothing like a few days of doing nothing to give you a much needed break from things.
"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts
Hi John, welcome back.The hoplophilliac thing was just me having a little fun, if there is word for the irrational fear or hatred of weapons, there must, by inference, be an antonym to that word. Lets be civilised, not all people who oppose handguns are nuts, neither are all advocates for gun ownership.
Long and short of my case here......The gun laws were changed a while back. We now have a status quo where private ownership of guns is severely controlled, I think we can both agree on this.
We don't have a strong or widely supported body which advocates a change in that law, and unless something really dramatic happens, thats the way its likely to stay.
So, in order to change the law, which rightly, or wrongly was changed after a shocking mass murder, there will need to be some sort of situation where the private ownership of firearms could be shown beyond any reasonable doubt to have prevented such a tragedy. That simply isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future, I hope.
Change in gun ownership law is not a huge issue here. The vast majority of Brits don't want the situation to change. I keep referring people to go and check the manifestos of our main political parties, none of them currently advocate changing our laws. That should be a fair representation of the profile of this issue with us.
People keep pointing to comparative crime statistics, and folks are even getting close to making decent comparisons via rate per capita, as opposed to total crime, which is good, but you and I agreed a while back that there are far more influencing factors to crime rate than mere gun ownership, or lack of it.
People are also talking about freedoms, the rightly defended constitution of your country lists the ability to bear arms as a right. That is not the situation over here, or in many other places. Just because something is enshrined in one country's constitution, doesn't necessarily make it valid, right, or just, for other countries (back to that whole cultural difference thing again).
Tolerance of difference is what is lacking here, on both sides of the discussion. I'm not suggesting that you guys change your constitution, in fact I don't think any of the British usual suspects are either.
The hoplophilliac thing was just me having a little fun, if there is word for the irrational fear or hatred of weapons, there must, by inference, be an antonym to that word. Lets be civilised, not all people who oppose handguns are nuts, neither are all advocates for gun ownership.
Long and short of my case here......The gun laws were changed a while back. We now have a status quo where private ownership of guns is severely controlled, I think we can both agree on this.
We don't have a strong or widely supported body which advocates a change in that law, and unless something really dramatic happens, thats the way its likely to stay.
So, in order to change the law, which rightly, or wrongly was changed after a shocking mass murder, there will need to be some sort of situation where the private ownership of firearms could be shown beyond any reasonable doubt to have prevented such a tragedy. That simply isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future, I hope.
Change in gun ownership law is not a huge issue here. The vast majority of Brits don't want the situation to change. I keep referring people to go and check the manifestos of our main political parties, none of them currently advocate changing our laws. That should be a fair representation of the profile of this issue with us.
People keep pointing to comparative crime statistics, and folks are even getting close to making decent comparisons via rate per capita, as opposed to total crime, which is good, but you and I agreed a while back that there are far more influencing factors to crime rate than mere gun ownership, or lack of it.
People are also talking about freedoms, the rightly defended constitution of your country lists the ability to bear arms as a right. That is not the situation over here, or in many other places. Just because something is enshrined in one country's constitution, doesn't necessarily make it valid, right, or just, for other countries (back to that whole cultural difference thing again).
Tolerance of difference is what is lacking here, on both sides of the discussion. I'm not suggesting that you guys change your constitution, in fact I don't think any of the British usual suspects are either.
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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
Newbie 0
QuoteQuoteWe do not live in danger of gangs... There are no drive by shootings... There are no open deals made on streets.
Geez, all those 100% positive statements. All of them wrong. It only takes one example to prove such a statement incorrect.
Drive-by shootings:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3859709.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3855583.stm
Gangs:
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1142336,00.html
Public drug dealing:
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13170413,00.htmlQuoteViolence only very RARELY spills out to the public arena. It's the US that has a culture of fear, not us
Um, pardon me, but US and UK statistics show that *England* has a higher violent crime rate than America.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cjusew96.pdf
Your arguments are completely lacking in facts.
thanks for taking an interest in my post which was directed at Skyrad, John. The reason it was directed to him was because he and i were discussing areas of London, not Sheffield and the Midlands, which is where those drive by's took place that you posted.
Peckham, the area i referred to is an area of high social deprivation, which you could classify as a ghetto, and i was implying through what i said to Skyrad that just because it's seen in that light, doesn't mean we see open drug dealing and drive by's. Of course, those sorts of things happen in this country, but it's by far the exception to the rule, even in light of what you say about the UK outstripping the US in violent crime.
I still stand by my statement that more likely than not, violence does not lend itself to the public arena. You can post all the links you want and tell me that my arguements completely lack in facts, but i have spent almost my entire 29 years in London, working and hanging out in areas you might as a tourist consider "no go". How many times have i been the subject of violent crime? Zero. How can personal direct experience not count as valid fact?
By the way - you should read your own sources - the last link you posted, barring the fact it's completely out of date now, states:
"The major exception to the pattern of higher crime rates in England is the murder rate. The 1996 U.S. murder rate is vastly higher (nearly 6 times) than England's, althgouh the difference between the two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."
"Firearms are more often involved in violent crimes in the Unites States than in England. According to the 1996 police statistics, firearms were using in 68% of U.S. murders but 7% of English murders, and 41% of U.S. robberies but 5% of English robberies".
"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts
Skyrad 0
Actualy John, and I mean this sincerly.......I agree totaly.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
JohnRich 4
QuoteActualy John, and I mean this sincerly.......I agree totaly.
Pigs are flying, and it's snowing in hell!
Don't worry, I'll keep this a secret, just between you and me.
Skyrad 0
Yea but thats nothing, check out that blue moon! 
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
If anyone can interpret this, please let me know.
Self defense is a birthright. Being denied the most effective means of self defense, and then thanking some faceless bureacrat for it, is a learned behavior.
Apparently we're doing better on ours than you are on yours. Our crime rate, and just about every category thereof, has been steadily declining for years.
What's yours been doing lately?
Quote me one instance where John or anyone else supported giving guns or any other weapon to the mentally ill, adicts, or anyone else not in control of themselves? We want criminals punished and the ill healed as much or more than anyone else.
Also, I'm still waiting for anyone who believes like you do to tell me what horrors I've ever committed, that I should be denied a tool to defend myself from things when society fails to do so.
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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