kelpdiver 2 #51 July 22, 2004 Quote There is plenty of justice to be had in our courts. That's the place to pursue any complaints against a police officer you have. If you have a gun, and you decide to become judge, jury and executioner towards a cop you dislike - expect to be killed. We (rightly) place a high value on the lives of our police and miltary. It is fortunate more people do not believe as you do; we'd see a lot of dead cops in our streets if they were required to not defend themselves when fired upon. If the cop fires first, it's unrealistic to ask a person to rely on the courts for justice. Dead people tell no tales. And if I were a Branch Dividian, I would have seen no reason to exit the compound to seek justice from a government that looked out of line to the impartial observer, and grossly abusive to those on the inside. Wen Ho Lee comes to mind too. Sure he eventually was released, and they never shot at him, but justice was hardly done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #52 July 22, 2004 Quote "There is nothing so important that it can't be put off until tommorrow" Even CPR?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #53 July 22, 2004 QuoteYou can believe that if you choose. I will always be against any feel-good nonsense that say a cop has to allow himself to be shot, rather than defend himself. No one here said that. QuoteI think if you knew any (cops) you'd feel differently. Yes, you make a habit of assuming what others' opinions are or would be. But as far as knowing any, does my Father and Grandfather count? FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #54 July 25, 2004 No answer!? No worries. I'll wait. I've grown accustomed to waiting. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #55 July 25, 2004 Quote>It has never been determined which side at Waco fired first. Doesn't really matter. If you're facing down a cop, and he says "drop the gun or I shoot!" and shooting begins - the cop is not obligated to prove that the other guy fired first before he is allowed to return fire. Boy did you set up a tautology here. You said, "If the cop says, 'Drop the gun or I'll shoot!' and shooting begins..." Um, isn't the crux of the question here did the COP shoot first or NOT?? I mean, it's true that a cop does not have to wait for a court to find that a perp shot first before the cop can return fire -- duh, that's impossible. But there should definitely be an expectation of an investigation into who did in fact shoot first. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #56 July 25, 2004 QuoteI agree that the government screwed up a lot that day. But once ANYONE opens fire on US officials, they forfeit their right to life - no matter what their religion. That's in the heat of the moment. If things are cooled down, say, a brief period during which shooting ceases, that ENDS the right of the authorities to just go in shooting and killing anyone they find. It's much the same as a civilian facing a lethal threat: if the attacker turns tail and runs, the threat is over and you are no longer justified in using lethal force. Cops are no more authorized to continue on with lethal force (as executioners, essentially) after a threat to them is over as the rest of us are. You're making it sound like they're allowed to continue trying to kill the suspects as some sort of "finishing a vendetta." --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #57 July 25, 2004 Quote No answer!? No worries. I'll wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #58 July 25, 2004 QuoteQuote>It has never been determined which side at Waco fired first. Doesn't really matter. If you're facing down a cop, and he says "drop the gun or I shoot!" and shooting begins - the cop is not obligated to prove that the other guy fired first before he is allowed to return fire. Boy did you set up a tautology here. You said, "If the cop says, 'Drop the gun or I'll shoot!' and shooting begins..." Um, isn't the crux of the question here did the COP shoot first or NOT?? I mean, it's true that a cop does not have to wait for a court to find that a perp shot first before the cop can return fire -- duh, that's impossible. But there should definitely be an expectation of an investigation into who did in fact shoot first. - And what do you drop if in fact you don't have a gun, like Amadou Diallo?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)