TypicalFish 0 #1 July 21, 2004 Only because I am watching a documentary and it also happens to be a pet interest of mine. A moment from the documentary: As the FBI "rented" tanks roll into the compound, they have loudspeakers blaring "This is not an assault!"... What exactly DO you call it when you drive a tank through the wall of a building firing CS gas shells that explode in flames because they ignite what the sprayed particulate is suspended in? Surreal. It's like the moment in "Mars Attacks" when as the Martians are killing everyone, the electronic translator developed by the Army is still saying "We are your friends...""I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #2 July 21, 2004 QuoteAs the FBI "rented" tanks roll into the compound, they have loudspeakers blaring "This is not an assault!"... That is rather silly. However, the assault was justified in my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #3 July 21, 2004 Damn! I thought from the title that this thread was gonna be about the restored bi-plane that AOPA awarded to a member! What happened at Waco was the crown jewel in the fucked-up presidency of William J. Clinton. And don't you love how Janet "He-Man" Reno "accepted full personal responsibility" for what happened? FUCK! I'D accept full responsibility too, if I knew as she did that it wouldn't mean a damned thing as far as personal repercussions! I mean, what the fuck happened to her? Was she fined? Was she sued? Was she imprisoned? "America, I accept the full NULL responsibility for what happened." OOOH, we're all really impressed with your honor and integrity, especially when you don't stand exposed to any PUNISHMENT. Ya fuckin' fascist bitch! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #4 July 21, 2004 Quote However, the assault was justified in my opinion. I do agree that in the end something needed to be done, but there were PLENTY of chances throughout the encounter (on both sides) to avoid the end result. Tragic, really, for both the non-combatant Davidians and peace officers alike.."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #5 July 21, 2004 QuoteWhat exactly DO you call it when you drive a tank through the wall of a building firing CS gas shells that explode in flames because of what the particulate is suspended in? Surreal. I actually know a great deal about the assault on Waco. When I was in the Navy our unit did some research on 2 assault disasters. One was Waco with the other being the 1972 Munich fiasco at the olympics. Our studies were specifically focused on what they did right and what was botched. More importantly, what could have been done differently so if we were ever put in a similiar situation we wouldn't be repeating mistakes of the past. If you want specific details I would be more than happy to PM you with tons. If not here's a quick conclusion. 1. Too much confusion among various agencies. 2. Poorly trained assault teams. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #6 July 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteAs the FBI "rented" tanks roll into the compound, they have loudspeakers blaring "This is not an assault!"... That is rather silly. However, the assault was justified in my opinion. The assault was not justified in the slightest. The BATF is in no way responsible for conducting assaults based on suspicion of child endangerment. The weapons they had in the compound were owned legally. And if they wanted David Koresh, they had every opportunity to arrest him when he was not holed up and well armed inside his compound. He was known to go into town and they knew it and could have arrested him there without incident. They WANTED to raid the compound, so they CREATED their "excuse." Imagine if Saddam Hussein had been known to frequent casinos in Morocco, and the U.S. knew it but did not try to take him out there, instead waiting for him to return to any of his strongholds, necessitating a WAR to capture him. You'd indict the U.S. for that, wouldn't you? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #7 July 21, 2004 Quote He was known to go into town and they knew it and could have arrested him there without incident. They WANTED to raid the compound, so they CREATED their "excuse." Without debating the BATF's mindset, I am pretty sure the original intent was to serve a search warrant for the very reason that they didn't have reasonable cause to formally arrest Koresh."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #8 July 21, 2004 Didn't they have illegal weaponry such as hand grenades and the like stockpiled in there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #9 July 21, 2004 QuoteDidn't they have illegal weaponry such as hand grenades and the like stockpiled in there? Pretty sure those suspicions (among others) were the reasons for the search warrant."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #10 July 21, 2004 If that's the case and also in response to "Peaceful" Jeffrey , I'd say they were justified. I'm ALL for people being able to own firearms and I think the whole "assault weapons" ban thing is a complete sham, however, you can't just go around stockpiling grenades and rocket launchers as a private citizen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #11 July 21, 2004 Thread hijack, but it had to be done. (see attached) -C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #12 July 21, 2004 That's awsome! Sounds like some of the parties I used to go to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #13 July 21, 2004 QuoteWithout debating the BATF's mindset, I am pretty sure the original intent was to serve a search warrant for the very reason that they didn't have reasonable cause to formally arrest Koresh. Then why'd they have the press along for it? THose images on the news, taken by news crews, of the BATF guys getting shot up? You don't invite the press if your original intent is to serve a warrant. You invite the press to send a message, and get a warrant served, too. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #14 July 21, 2004 WACO - We Ain't Commin' Out If that were going to happen anywhere in the world it would have to be in Waco - Man, that is one fucked up place. Nothin' like going through the drive through at DQ and examining the Waco's 10 Most Wanted List which is conveniently tacked on to the drive through window. I was installing a bunch of machines for a start up company there a few years back and me and the owner were looking through this huge stack of job applications over lunch. Out of nearly 200 applications we found 19 applicants that didn't have at least one felony conviction. Most had more than one. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #15 July 21, 2004 So is it any wonder they gravitated to a Christ-figure charlatan whacko? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #16 July 21, 2004 QuoteSo is it any wonder they gravitated to a Christ-figure charlatan whacko? How'd they end up hanging out with John Ashcroft? You lost me. Note the "I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #17 July 21, 2004 QuoteSo is it any wonder they gravitated to a Christ-figure charlatan whacko? - No, not really. Not much of a surprise that they gave him all of their personal possessions either. What surprises me is how much weaponry you can buy with a camaro and a rusty old fridge Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #18 July 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo is it any wonder they gravitated to a Christ-figure charlatan whacko? - No, not really. Not much of a surprise that they gave him all of their personal possessions either. What surprises me is how much weaponry you can buy with a camaro and a rusty old fridge Yeah, but it was a SWEET Camaro... A '69 SS I believe..."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #19 July 21, 2004 From what I recall it was more like an 88 V6 Berlinetta With that bunch, odds are he had more than one Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #20 July 21, 2004 QuoteFrom what I recall it was more like an 88 V6 Berlinetta With that bunch, odds are he had more than one EDIT: Turns out I was wrong, it was a black '68... I remember that he had "Lamb Of God" or some such engraved in the valve covers..."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #21 July 21, 2004 Well, the "Lamb of God" (whatever the fuck that is) thing sounds pretty convincing......But now that I think of it, I do recall something about a Gremlin with a Jesus Bobble Head Doll on the dash Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #22 July 21, 2004 Quoteyou can't just go around stockpiling grenades and rocket launchers as a private citizen. They didn't. I recommend the documentary: "WACO: The Rules of Engagement". FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #23 July 21, 2004 QuoteYa fuckin' fascist bitch! So, is this part of the petty, juvenile name calling you go on and on about in a different thread? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 July 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteWithout debating the BATF's mindset, I am pretty sure the original intent was to serve a search warrant for the very reason that they didn't have reasonable cause to formally arrest Koresh. Then why'd they have the press along for it? THose images on the news, taken by news crews, of the BATF guys getting shot up? You don't invite the press if your original intent is to serve a warrant. You invite the press to send a message, and get a warrant served, too. Like others, I believe the warrant was justified, but not an assault with tanks. As for the press being there, were they there from the get go? I mean, that stand off was a month and a half long. I don't think the press was there when they first showed up, just after it turned into a siege. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #25 July 21, 2004 QuoteI don't think the press was there when they first showed up, just after it turned into a siege. They were there before it began. The media was notified days in advance that something big was going to happen. The entire incident was designed as a publicity stunt on the part of the ATF, to bolster their reputation just prior to a Congressional funding hearing. This is not speculation. The Congressional hearings on the Waco incident brought it to light. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
