labrys 0 #1 July 16, 2004 I've been home sick today and have spent too much time on the forums, for sure. At least I thought it was too much time until I realized that the couple of threads I've been gnawing on have helped me articulate one of my most deep-seated beliefs about what it means to be a citizen and patriot here in the USA. Every time I see one of those "I support our troops" signs on someones car or yard I want to roll down my window or knock on the door and ask what it is, exactly, that they are doing to support our troops. I think that some, but very few, would have a legitimate answer. I suspect that most people displaying them are doing it advertise themselves as Good Americans. If you have one of these signs ask yourself why. What are you doing? Are you making a difference or just telling your neighbors what a great person you are and enjoying the benefits of freedom of speach without pitching in and lending a hand? I hear, over and over, that "Our Troops" are brave and noble people who take up arms and put themselves in harms way in far away places to defend our freedoms. And when they die, most accept their deaths as a natural result of war in the name of freedom and democracy. My personal belief is that if I want to really support our troops, I have to decide to take some of the burden myself. I don't think it's fair to call a soldier a hero and then call myself a patriot if I'm not willing to sacrifice for the good of the country as the founders intended it to be. What sense does anyone have to admire a soldier for defending freedom and then demand that some peoples freedoms be diminished to make their own lives easier? If you want to call someone a patriot beause they're out fighting for freedom, great. Just don't call yourself one unless you're fighting for freedom too. It's like our legal system. Innocent until proven guilty and trial by a jury of peers. If you agree with that concept, then you have to accept that some innocent people will be proven guilty by mistake and some guilty people will go free. You can't demand the fairest legal system and then demand it does not ever fail. You also can't admire the concepts of freedom and democracy unless you're willing to accept that innocent people might die, including yourself. /end rambleOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #2 July 16, 2004 So what is it exactly you plan on doing to Support Our Troops? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #3 July 16, 2004 Well, I assume supporting our troops means supporting the war... and, considering that our tax dollars are spent on this war, Americans do indeed support the war (whether or not they agree with it!). ... And, thereby support the troops. [No, I do not have a support sticker. I do not support this war (any more than my taxes force me to).] So, what is it that you feel these people need to do in order to "earn" their title as troop supporters? I would think that paying taxes and verbally expressing ones care and appreciation for the troops should earn them that title. (then again, in my opinion, the troops would be much better 'supported' by being brought home... the depth of my support is my hope for their safe return, rather than being left out there to die for Bush. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #4 July 16, 2004 QuoteSo what is it exactly you plan on doing to Support Our Troops? Tell the elected officials who represent me how I feel. Vote for the candidates who come the closest to representing my views. Back up my words with actions. Be willing to accept that everyone has rights and honor those rights even if they make my life more difficult. Not ask them to risk their lives for freedom if I'm not willing to risk my own. What else can anyone do? I supported our troops in my youth by being one of our troops. Is that exact enough?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #5 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo what is it exactly you plan on doing to Support Our Troops? QuoteTell the elected officials who represent me how I feel. Vote for the candidates who come the closest to representing my views. Back up my words with actions. Be willing to accept that everyone has rights and honor those rights even if they make my life more difficult. Not ask them to risk their lives for freedom if I'm not willing to risk my own. What else can anyone do? I supported our troops in my youth by being one of our troops. Is that exact enough? Quote Are you suggesting those who have "Support Our Troops" signs and bumper stickers don't do this? Are you aware of the many different organization that have been set up where you can contribute money directly to the families of those who have died in Afghanistan and Iraq? Are you really suggesting these people aren't involved in supporting these orginazations or that they don't contribute help in other ways? Next time you see one of these signs, why don't you ask that person what they are doing to help to support our troops. You might be surprised by some of the answers you get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #6 July 16, 2004 QuoteAre you suggesting those who have "Support Our Troops" signs and bumper stickers don't do this? No, and in my original post I acknowledged that some do. They are a minority.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #7 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteAre you suggesting those who have "Support Our Troops" signs and bumper stickers don't do this? No, and in my original post I acknowledged that some do. They are a minority. How do you know this for a fact? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #8 July 16, 2004 Because 3/4's of my neighbors within a 5 block radius on every side of my house have them and I interact with them. We have block parties and neighborhood meetings and we go to local school events together and all that stuff. I'll concede that maybe it's just a fluke and that the quiet, midwestern town I live in could be some sort of statistical anomoly.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #9 July 16, 2004 QuoteBecause 3/4's of my neighbors within a 5 block radius on every side of my house have them and I interact with them. We have block parties and neighborhood meetings and we go to local school events together and all that stuff. I'll concede that maybe it's just a fluke and that the quiet, midwestern town I live in could be some sort of statistical anomoly. You do have to admit your evidence is highly anecdotal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #10 July 16, 2004 Nice. You've esentialy said you're doing nothing. I can suport the troops my goverment sends to die even if I don't believe in the reason behind it. I refuse to accept the fact that as a civilian one must die for freedom. The freedom you speak of it that which would alow a burglur to come in my house take what he wants and I could be procecuted if I killed him for doing so. I am not living my life so that peoples sensibilities of what's right and wrong are protected. I'm not dying for someones ego. I didn't sign up for that. (Well I did but they wouldn't have me.) Stay out of my house, don't tell me how to raise my kids (when and if I have them) don't bother me when I'm minding my own buisness.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #11 July 16, 2004 I already conceded that. Do you have something empirical to share?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #12 July 16, 2004 QuoteI already conceded that. Do you have something empirical to share? Nope. I actually never thought about it until your post. I just wanted to understand your reasoning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #13 July 16, 2004 QuoteStay out of my house, don't tell me how to raise my kids (when and if I have them) don't bother me when I'm minding my own buisness. You're only supporting my point with that one.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #14 July 16, 2004 QuoteWell, I assume supporting our troops means supporting the war... You couldn't be more wrong. That's the reasoning that a bunch of crazed lunitics had when welcoming soldiers back from Vietnam. They have gone over to do the job they agreed to do for the goverment, and furthur more the American people, reguarless of their personal opinion about it. It's a shame public service in this country isn't mandatory. Instead it's those with conviction to stick to their promisis that end up performing the duties out nation asks of them.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #15 July 16, 2004 QuoteNope. I actually never thought about it until your post. I just wanted to understand your reasoning. I really wasn't trying to say "Here's what I think and what I think is an undisputed truth" I was sharing my thoughts.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #16 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteNope. I actually never thought about it until your post. I just wanted to understand your reasoning. I really wasn't trying to say "Here's what I think and what I think is an undisputed truth" I was sharing my thoughts. I understood that. My question is still the same though. What are you currently doing to support the troops that you claim these people aren't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #17 July 16, 2004 You're deluding yourself. I'm advocating being alowed to defend ones self, and you're sugesting it's ok if I die to preserve some crooks "civil liberties" Scenario: A burglur breaks into your house and after you discover him he says "get back or I'll kill you" and then charges you. You have a gun. Do you shoot him? Do you then go to jail because he didn't have a weapon? From what you have said before, you wouldn't shoot him and if you died it would be simply in the name of freedom. My appologies for the thread drift. Ignore this if you wish.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #18 July 16, 2004 QuoteScenario: A burglur breaks into your house and after you discover him he says "get back or I'll kill you" and then charges you. You have a gun. Do you shoot him? Do you then go to jail because he didn't have a weapon? Nope, I'd kill him too. But I wouldn't kill someone because they were standing on the sidewalk in front of my house and I thought they looked like they were up to no good.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #19 July 16, 2004 QuoteNope, I'd kill him too. But I wouldn't kill someone because they were standing on the sidewalk in front of my house and I thought they looked like they were up to no good. You know, I think we're both on the same side of the fence, just seeing things slightly differently. Would you go up and ask him what they were up to? Would you keep an eye on them?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #20 July 16, 2004 QuoteYou know, I think we're both on the same side of the fence, just seeing things slightly differently. It's possible QuoteWould you go up and ask him what they were up to? Yes QuoteWould you keep an eye on them? YesOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbarry 0 #21 July 16, 2004 "Supporting US troops by helping the families they left behind." Operation Homefront Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #22 July 16, 2004 How about not spitting on them at airports upon their return, or sending hate-mail to the families of KIAs? mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #23 July 16, 2004 Who? WTF are you talking about?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #24 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteBecause 3/4's of my neighbors within a 5 block radius on every side of my house have them and I interact with them. We have block parties and neighborhood meetings and we go to local school events together and all that stuff. I'll concede that maybe it's just a fluke and that the quiet, midwestern town I live in could be some sort of statistical anomoly. You do have to admit your evidence is highly anecdotal. It is, but in concurs with my experience. Most of the people I know with "support the troops" stickers limit their support to displaying the sticker. My son is in the Army and he hasn't reported any influx of "support".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #25 July 16, 2004 QuoteWhat are you currently doing to support the troops that you claim these people aren't? I answered this question in my original post and in another. I'm trying to pull my weight and take responsibility for my actions. I'm not claiming to be doing anything that they aren't doing. I don't display anything at my house or on my car that announces my support. Are you saying that support only counts if it's monetary?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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labrys 0 #6 July 16, 2004 QuoteAre you suggesting those who have "Support Our Troops" signs and bumper stickers don't do this? No, and in my original post I acknowledged that some do. They are a minority.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #7 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteAre you suggesting those who have "Support Our Troops" signs and bumper stickers don't do this? No, and in my original post I acknowledged that some do. They are a minority. How do you know this for a fact? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #8 July 16, 2004 Because 3/4's of my neighbors within a 5 block radius on every side of my house have them and I interact with them. We have block parties and neighborhood meetings and we go to local school events together and all that stuff. I'll concede that maybe it's just a fluke and that the quiet, midwestern town I live in could be some sort of statistical anomoly.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #9 July 16, 2004 QuoteBecause 3/4's of my neighbors within a 5 block radius on every side of my house have them and I interact with them. We have block parties and neighborhood meetings and we go to local school events together and all that stuff. I'll concede that maybe it's just a fluke and that the quiet, midwestern town I live in could be some sort of statistical anomoly. You do have to admit your evidence is highly anecdotal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 July 16, 2004 Nice. You've esentialy said you're doing nothing. I can suport the troops my goverment sends to die even if I don't believe in the reason behind it. I refuse to accept the fact that as a civilian one must die for freedom. The freedom you speak of it that which would alow a burglur to come in my house take what he wants and I could be procecuted if I killed him for doing so. I am not living my life so that peoples sensibilities of what's right and wrong are protected. I'm not dying for someones ego. I didn't sign up for that. (Well I did but they wouldn't have me.) Stay out of my house, don't tell me how to raise my kids (when and if I have them) don't bother me when I'm minding my own buisness.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #11 July 16, 2004 I already conceded that. Do you have something empirical to share?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #12 July 16, 2004 QuoteI already conceded that. Do you have something empirical to share? Nope. I actually never thought about it until your post. I just wanted to understand your reasoning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #13 July 16, 2004 QuoteStay out of my house, don't tell me how to raise my kids (when and if I have them) don't bother me when I'm minding my own buisness. You're only supporting my point with that one.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #14 July 16, 2004 QuoteWell, I assume supporting our troops means supporting the war... You couldn't be more wrong. That's the reasoning that a bunch of crazed lunitics had when welcoming soldiers back from Vietnam. They have gone over to do the job they agreed to do for the goverment, and furthur more the American people, reguarless of their personal opinion about it. It's a shame public service in this country isn't mandatory. Instead it's those with conviction to stick to their promisis that end up performing the duties out nation asks of them.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #15 July 16, 2004 QuoteNope. I actually never thought about it until your post. I just wanted to understand your reasoning. I really wasn't trying to say "Here's what I think and what I think is an undisputed truth" I was sharing my thoughts.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #16 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteNope. I actually never thought about it until your post. I just wanted to understand your reasoning. I really wasn't trying to say "Here's what I think and what I think is an undisputed truth" I was sharing my thoughts. I understood that. My question is still the same though. What are you currently doing to support the troops that you claim these people aren't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #17 July 16, 2004 You're deluding yourself. I'm advocating being alowed to defend ones self, and you're sugesting it's ok if I die to preserve some crooks "civil liberties" Scenario: A burglur breaks into your house and after you discover him he says "get back or I'll kill you" and then charges you. You have a gun. Do you shoot him? Do you then go to jail because he didn't have a weapon? From what you have said before, you wouldn't shoot him and if you died it would be simply in the name of freedom. My appologies for the thread drift. Ignore this if you wish.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #18 July 16, 2004 QuoteScenario: A burglur breaks into your house and after you discover him he says "get back or I'll kill you" and then charges you. You have a gun. Do you shoot him? Do you then go to jail because he didn't have a weapon? Nope, I'd kill him too. But I wouldn't kill someone because they were standing on the sidewalk in front of my house and I thought they looked like they were up to no good.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #19 July 16, 2004 QuoteNope, I'd kill him too. But I wouldn't kill someone because they were standing on the sidewalk in front of my house and I thought they looked like they were up to no good. You know, I think we're both on the same side of the fence, just seeing things slightly differently. Would you go up and ask him what they were up to? Would you keep an eye on them?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #20 July 16, 2004 QuoteYou know, I think we're both on the same side of the fence, just seeing things slightly differently. It's possible QuoteWould you go up and ask him what they were up to? Yes QuoteWould you keep an eye on them? YesOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbarry 0 #21 July 16, 2004 "Supporting US troops by helping the families they left behind." Operation Homefront Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #22 July 16, 2004 How about not spitting on them at airports upon their return, or sending hate-mail to the families of KIAs? mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #23 July 16, 2004 Who? WTF are you talking about?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #24 July 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteBecause 3/4's of my neighbors within a 5 block radius on every side of my house have them and I interact with them. We have block parties and neighborhood meetings and we go to local school events together and all that stuff. I'll concede that maybe it's just a fluke and that the quiet, midwestern town I live in could be some sort of statistical anomoly. You do have to admit your evidence is highly anecdotal. It is, but in concurs with my experience. Most of the people I know with "support the troops" stickers limit their support to displaying the sticker. My son is in the Army and he hasn't reported any influx of "support".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #25 July 16, 2004 QuoteWhat are you currently doing to support the troops that you claim these people aren't? I answered this question in my original post and in another. I'm trying to pull my weight and take responsibility for my actions. I'm not claiming to be doing anything that they aren't doing. I don't display anything at my house or on my car that announces my support. Are you saying that support only counts if it's monetary?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
