billvon 3,111 #26 July 8, 2004 >I see news about terrorists being capture and killed all the time in Iraq > and Afghanistan. You don't think that requires any effort? You think they >would kill and capture more if Ridge didn't go on TV? How so? They kill and capture more per political pressure, yes. A third source, an official who works under ISI's director, Lieutenant General Ehsan ul-Haq, informed tnr that the Pakistanis "have been told at every level that apprehension or killing of HVTs before [the] election is [an] absolute must." . . . according to this ISI official, a White House aide told ul-Haq last spring that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July"--the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Boston. (BTW "HVT" stands for "high value target.") http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #27 July 8, 2004 QuoteGuess we'll all just keep on going on with our regular routines. At least he didn't change the threat level to orange. That screws up my routine by adding half an hour to my commute each morning. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #28 July 8, 2004 QuoteFor instance, let's say there was another massive attack . . . the right wouldn't want you to change Presidents in the middle of a war, the left would see it the current Administration as totally ineffective in dealing with the problem. Net change = zero. So, anything less than no further attacks is seen as a totally ineffective administration by the left. Do you think they would come to the same conclusion with their guy in office?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #29 July 8, 2004 Quote So, anything less than no further attacks is seen as a totally ineffective administration by the left. Once -again- you seem to have missed the point of the Republican Party -- to wit -- larger government is bad. GWB created an entirely new cabinet level bureaucracy with a huge budget that has done very little to actually make us any safer.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #30 July 8, 2004 >So, anything less than no further attacks is seen as a totally ineffective >administration by the left. By both sides. "What, you want another terrorist attack?" is the most common defense by right-wingers when security policies are questioned. "No further attacks" is their holy grail too (one I do not think is achievable BTW) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #31 July 8, 2004 QuoteAnd with that extra intelligence you would do...what, exactly? Be alert. Your country needs lerts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #32 July 8, 2004 QuoteOnce -again- What does that mean? Are you tired of 'setting me straight'? Have I not been paying attention to your lessons? Quoteyou seem to have missed the point of the Republican Party -- to wit -- larger government is bad. There are a few roles for the federal government that are appropriate, even for conservatives. One of them is the defense of the country. QuoteGWB created an entirely new cabinet level bureaucracy with a huge budget that has done very little to actually make us any safer. Didn't the dems also push quite hard for such a cabinet level department? It is pretty hard to define the effectiveness/dollar ratio that would be considered good performance. I hope that not all of what they have done to prevent attacks is made completely visible to the public.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #33 July 8, 2004 In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And with that extra intelligence you would do...what, exactly? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI don't know what you mean? Do you mean if He was more specific with his information what would I do? or do you mean "you" more as a generalization? Regardless of what they are saying, unless they say when and where, I'm going to keep on going to work everyday, and go to the dropzone every weekend... Is that what you're asking me? All it takes is one person to notice something strange going on and having the awareness and courage to do something about it. What if the passengers next to the guy with the shoe bomb had thought after he tried to light the match, "I'll go get the stewardess to yell at him for trying to smoke?" A short hesitation/lack of awareness of the threat could mean the difference.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #34 July 8, 2004 Quote It is pretty hard to define the effectiveness/dollar ratio that would be considered good performance. I hope that not all of what they have done to prevent attacks is made completely visible to the public. Are you suggesting that there has been a major attack that was stopped, the terrorists captured and the DHS is hiding the information from the citizenry?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #35 July 8, 2004 Yes....Bush said in a speech the other day that there hasn't been a terrorist attack in America since 9/11. I guess he forgot about that whole Anthrax thing, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #36 July 9, 2004 Quote ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It is pretty hard to define the effectiveness/dollar ratio that would be considered good performance. I hope that not all of what they have done to prevent attacks is made completely visible to the public. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteAre you suggesting that there has been a major attack that was stopped, the terrorists captured and the DHS is hiding the information from the citizenry? There have been some major arrests in the US and elsewhere that may have been helped by the DHS. I would not want them to let us know exactly how they identify and locate the enemy, so as to not compromise sources and methods.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #37 July 9, 2004 QuoteGWB created an entirely new cabinet level bureaucracy with a huge budget that has done very little to actually make us any safer. How do you know that? Where is your proof? I've said it before, the DHS is in an impossible position. If we're never attacked they're seen as unnecessary. If we are attacked they're seen as ineffective. I don't envy these people at all, not one little bit. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #38 July 9, 2004 You presume that they are performing functions that were not being performed by other organizations before them. I do not. While they may now be doing it all under one more large bureaucracy, all of their functions that I'm aware of, where being performed by other government agencies or by the private sector. For example . . . TSA screening used to be performed by employees of airports and funded by the airlines. Now, even if you're not an airline traveler, you're paying for the TSA. As for advice on things like home preparedness . . . I don't need the DHS to tell me how to prepare my home for a chemical attack. I can get that advice from The National Duct Tape Council.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #39 July 9, 2004 QuoteYou presume that they are performing functions that were not being performed by other organizations before them. I do? I didn't know that, but thanks for the revelation. QuoteWhile they may now be doing it all under one more large bureaucracy, all of their functions that I'm aware of, where being performed by other government agencies or by the private sector. Ineffectively, or at least with ineffective inter-organization communication. Would you agree? I think that one of the things that the DHS hopes to do (and maybe now does) is provide a clearing house for all of the other agencies communications and information. With all of that data at their disposal they should certainly be better positioned to analyze threat data than the previous model. Correct? Either way, I'm still waiting for the proof that they've done nothing to make us safer. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #40 July 9, 2004 Quote Either way, I'm still waiting for the proof that they've done nothing to make us safer. Scroll back for me a second will ya? Was I actually sloppy enough to speak in absolutes? No? Ok, I stand by my assertions.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #41 July 9, 2004 Quote>Have you heard that some of the terrorists being kept at Gitmo were >released because of all the hysteria about them being denied their rights? >They are now back in Iraq and Afghanistan and have joined back up with >Al Qaeda and will be killing more American Troops in the future, I'm sure. Yeah, I even heard that Kris might be allowed to renew her driver's license anyway, despite the Patriot Act provision that was preventing her from doing so. I'm sure she will be back with Al Qaeda real soon too; don't forget, our government doesn't make mistakes. What part of "joined back up with Al Qaeda" escaped you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #42 July 9, 2004 Quote>I see news about terrorists being capture and killed all the time in Iraq > and Afghanistan. You don't think that requires any effort? You think they >would kill and capture more if Ridge didn't go on TV? How so? They kill and capture more per political pressure, yes. A third source, an official who works under ISI's director, Lieutenant General Ehsan ul-Haq, informed tnr that the Pakistanis "have been told at every level that apprehension or killing of HVTs before [the] election is [an] absolute must." . . . according to this ISI official, a White House aide told ul-Haq last spring that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July"--the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Boston. (BTW "HVT" stands for "high value target.") http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904 How does that relate to what I said? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #43 July 9, 2004 QuoteEver wonder who is causing more terror ? Al Qaeda, or our own government with their warnings of attack? What do you mean? Have you actually felt fear based on the government saying that someone could be planning to attack us, go to code orange? Puhlease. NO ONE is being affected by these claims of heightened threat levels, etc. People blow them off because by now they've become the boy who cried wolf. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #44 July 9, 2004 QuoteSo, he makes the announcement and also doesn't bump up the threat level. That damn Bush. He's evil. It's all another mass conspiracy. Those bastards! Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #45 July 9, 2004 QuoteEver wonder who is causing more terror ? Al Qaeda, or our own government with their warnings of attack? Typical liberal comment. Bush is damned if he does...damned if he doesn't. If he releases a warning the sheep bash him because he's "scaring" the public. If he says nothing and something happens he's seen as a monster who did nothing to protect us. Of course, that's only thoughts from the liberal sheep. For the rest of the sane, intelligent people we see this as a warning from our leader that an attack could happen. Nothing more, nothing less. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #46 July 9, 2004 QuotePeople blow them off because by now they've become the boy who cried wolf. Don't think we've reached that point yet but it's drawing very close to that. After much more of warnings the people will not take them seriously. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #47 July 9, 2004 Naw, not a conspiracy -- just incompetence. Did I say imcompetence? Yep. He set up a cabinet level department who's main claim to fame is warning the pubic about terrorist threats -- none of which the public now pays any attention to.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #48 July 9, 2004 Incompetence by giving us warning? Interesting. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #49 July 9, 2004 Quotenone of which the public now pays any attention to. How great it must be to personally know and have asked every US citizen if they pay attention to the warnings. Obviously people listen to the warnings. It was the talk of the news today and will be until November. I listen to Glen Beck, Rush Linbaugh and the Schnitt show every day and today it was all they talked about. So I guess people are paying attention. Oh, by the way, if no one pays attention to it how did you know about it to post a thread on it? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #50 July 9, 2004 Ok, yes, that -was- sloppy. I must be getting tired. What I -should- have said was " . . . little of which the public now pays any attention to." BTW, I doubt it was ALL Rush talked about today. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
