lawrocket 3 #1 July 2, 2004 We're at the 30th anniversary of Blazing Saddles, in my opinion one of the greatest movies of all time. In essence, it was a comedy. In form, it was a Western. In reality it was a powerful social message about racism. The makers of the movie agree that it could not be made today. See this fine article on the movie. http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040628-083212-2833r It's interesting to think of how the political correctness scene has eviscerated these things. Now, we have Bill Cosby catching hell for his statements. Blazing Saddles would have faced the same thing had Richard Pryor not been a writer. He gave legitimacy to the use of "nigger" throughout the movie. One of my best friends objected to the movie when he saw the first part of it. I told him, "See what this movie is really about." We talked about the racism aspect of the film, and he said, "It still doesn't make it right with that use of language." Could Blazing Saddles (which effectively ended the Western genre for a decade because everything sacred in a Western was poked fun at (can anyone ever see a campfire scene without thinking of that movie?)) be made today? Could Gone with the Wind, which romanticized the South during the Civil War, slavery era, and Reconstruction, face the political blows it would take? I do not think so. And I think it is a shame. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #2 July 2, 2004 Just look at what they did to Mark Twain's works. Not a chance in hell, and that is truly sad.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 July 2, 2004 QuoteJust look at what they did to Mark Twain's works. Not a chance in hell, and that is truly sad. Yep. The equivalent of burning books. Fahrenheit 451. Ring a bell? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #4 July 2, 2004 QuoteCould Gone with the Wind, which romanticized the South during the Civil War, slavery era, and Reconstruction, face the political blows it would take? Wasn't the original campfile scene referred to as "Gone With The Wind II" ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #5 July 2, 2004 QuoteThe makers of the movie agree that it could not be made today. See this fine article on the movie. I don't know. It's certainly sophomoric in many ways, and it suffers from a throw every gag at the wall to see what sticks mentality, but it's still one of my favorite movies ever. In fact at the drop zone, if there's too much figeting going on in the plane, it's not unknown to hear some complain that "you're all dancin' around like some Kansas City faggots" Now there's a line you won't hear in a comdey today. There's a lineage to films like the Naked Gun and American Pie today though I think. I wonder whatever happened to Cleavon Little ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #6 July 2, 2004 nope, never.. very related to the discussion we were having here to many "waiting to be offended types" and their PC misperceptions of intent would keep it from ever getting greenlighted...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #7 July 2, 2004 Blazing Saddles was on ABC Family a couple weeks ago. They bleeped or dubbed every single curse and racial slur in the entire movie (or so I assume, I could only stand to watch up to the part where Bart rides into town). What's the point of showing the film if it has to be edited down to a G-rating first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #8 July 2, 2004 QuoteI wonder whatever happened to Cleavon Little Cleavon Little died of cancer about 10 years ago My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #9 July 4, 2004 There are some fascinating anecdotes about the making of the movie. Mel Brooks, for example, kept Cleavon Little in the loop on the use of racial slurs to make sure it didn't go too far. Another is that when Brooks screened the pic for studio suits, they sat there stone-faced - Brooks ran out an got people off the street to watch the movie. The reaction convinced the suits to release the film. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #10 July 5, 2004 I liked the subtle bits most, e.g. when Mel plays an Indian Chief with a Yiddish accent… Mel Brooks’s early work (not so much his later movies) are the best comedies ever produced. Also loved The Producers and especially Frankenstein Junior.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #11 July 5, 2004 I agree completely, neither movie could, should, or would be made today. Both were a product of their times, and as the song goes, the times - they are a changing. There are movies being made today, that are just as didactic, unsettling, and conflicting today as those were then. Take for example "White Chicks" - a film that could not have been made 20 years ago, or F9/11, which is clearly groundbreaking for being the first film to ever attempt to affect an election. Both are clearly not "politically correct", and both exist only because they are a product of the time they were produced in - just like Blazing Saddles or Gone with the Wind. Times change. That's a good thing. Great films are only great because of the culture they were created in. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #12 July 5, 2004 QuoteWe're at the 30th anniversary of Blazing Saddles, in my opinion one of the greatest movies of all time. In essence, it was a comedy. In form, it was a Western. In reality it was a powerful social message about racism. The makers of the movie agree that it could not be made today. See this fine article on the movie. http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040628-083212-2833r It's interesting to think of how the political correctness scene has eviscerated these things. Now, we have Bill Cosby catching hell for his statements. Blazing Saddles would have faced the same thing had Richard Pryor not been a writer. He gave legitimacy to the use of "nigger" throughout the movie. One of my best friends objected to the movie when he saw the first part of it. I told him, "See what this movie is really about." We talked about the racism aspect of the film, and he said, "It still doesn't make it right with that use of language." Could Blazing Saddles (which effectively ended the Western genre for a decade because everything sacred in a Western was poked fun at (can anyone ever see a campfire scene without thinking of that movie?)) be made today? Could Gone with the Wind, which romanticized the South during the Civil War, slavery era, and Reconstruction, face the political blows it would take? I do not think so. And I think it is a shame. Anyone find it interesting this discussion takes place on a most PC forum? If so, do you see any parallels as to future effect? Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 July 9, 2004 And its a shame that Political correctness has killed the chance to have another great movie... I personally find "White Chicks" to be a very racist movie...But its OK for blacks to make fun of whites."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #14 July 9, 2004 >I personally find "White Chicks" to be a very racist movie...But its OK for >blacks to make fun of whites. You wouldn't consider "Soul Plane" a movie that makes fun of blacks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #15 July 9, 2004 Is a "racist" joke any different from a "fat" joke, or an "ugly" joke, or a "short" joke? Or religion, or homosexuality maybe? I mean a joke's a joke, right? When does it cross the line to intolerant?"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #16 July 9, 2004 Quote Is a "racist" joke any different from a "fat" joke, or an "ugly" joke, or a "short" joke? Or religion, or homosexuality maybe? I mean a joke's a joke, right? When does it cross the line to intolerant? The answer to that question is only found by people testing limits. The line only exists once it's been established. New concepts like black people parading as whites is untested. It's similar to "blackface", where white people would wear black make-up, and usally act like idiots. Blackface is almost always certainly terribly offensive, simply because of the history. Black people going as whites don't have that negative history. Is it over the line? I dunno. I haven't seen the movie, so I can't really judge. Nor, am I really clear what the "line" is, in this case. I do know that the people responsible have a long history of making damn funny show, so I really don't care either way. I'm sure I'll see it some day, and odds are I'll bust a gut laughing. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #17 July 9, 2004 >I mean a joke's a joke, right? When does it cross the line to intolerant? Depends on the person. Li'l Rascals was incredibly racist but funny at the time. Jokes about homosexuality/race/religion/women/blondes/hispanics don't bother or not bother me; it's the sentiment behind them that might bother me. A gay joke told by Keith might not bother me, but exactly the same joke told by someone else might. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #18 July 9, 2004 Quote>I personally find "White Chicks" to be a very racist movie...But its OK for >blacks to make fun of whites. You wouldn't consider "Soul Plane" a movie that makes fun of blacks? White Chicks..Made by the Wayans brothers (Who are black) Soul Plane with Kevin Hart(Black), Tom Arnold (White), Snoop Dogg (Black), Method Man (Black) An airline passenger (Kevin Hart) wins a lawsuit settlement from an airline, and decides to start his own urban-appeal carrier, complete with sexy stewardesses, funky music, an onboard dance club, and Snoop Dogg as the pilot. Things get really zany when a white passenger (Tom Arnold) boards the plane with his family after losing his seat on another airliner. So you have White Chicks where two Black actors make fun of being white women. And you have Soul plane where a white guy gets put into a situation with a bunch of blacks. Seems like they both are movies made by blacks about making fun of whites. That would be racism."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #19 July 9, 2004 >Seems like they both are movies made by blacks about making fun of whites. >That would be racism. ?? Racism has nothing to do with people making fun of other people. Jay Leno makes fun of his band leader all the time; it's not racist even though they are different races. Racism is _treating_ other people differently because they are a different race than you. You can make fun of whoever you want; if you only make fun of Hispanics while not making fun of the other races around, that's racism. I can tell Laurie blonde jokes; she doesn't get offended. She can tell me Irish jokes and I don't get offended. Amy can tell Keith gay jokes and that's fine. Colin Powell can sing a Village People song and . . . well, that's just unfortunate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #20 July 9, 2004 Quote?? Racism has nothing to do with people making fun of other people That is the dumbest statement I have ever seen you type Bill. QuoteColin Powell can sing a Village People song and . . . well, that's just unfortunate. That however is one of the funniest."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #21 July 9, 2004 I guarantee I could tell you some jokes that are very racist (and not very funny unless you are a racist).witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #22 July 9, 2004 QuoteSoul Plane with Kevin Hart(Black), Tom Arnold (White), Snoop Dogg (Black), Method Man (Black) Who here remembers that bit of tripe, "Soul Man" from the 80's? Who was it? C. Thomas Howell who played a white guy posing as a black man for a scholarship? Sure, some commentary existed about the lack of availability for white scholarships, but the premise was downriht bigoted - even to the point where he acted blind and shook his head like Stevie Wonder. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #23 July 9, 2004 Quote Soul Plane with Kevin Hart(Black), Tom Arnold (White), Snoop Dogg (Black), Method Man (Black) You can not have a discussions about white people making fun of blacks on film without mentioning the very embarrasing history. That has to include the "blacksploitation" flicks, plus "Blackface" and Minstrel. There is no such embarasing history of black people making fun of whites. The history here is very short, but more importantly, is really quite funny... Despite the obvious comparison between White Chicks and BlackFace, there really is no comparison because there is no historical baggage. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #24 July 9, 2004 > I guarantee I could tell you some jokes that are very racist . . . Of course; and I could open a business that was racist, or paint a painting that was racist. That does not mean that racism has anything inherently to do with business or art. Racism is something you can express in a lot of ways. Jokes are just one of those ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 July 10, 2004 So racism is ok as long as you don't associate history with it?!?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
