turtlespeed 226 #26 June 30, 2004 QuoteQuote....say the drug companies. Drug Prices Rose After Medicare Law QuoteAt a campaign event earlier this month, Bush said prescription drug cards mandated by the new Medicare law will save the elderly at least 15 to 30 percent. After he personally pushed to have the ability of the gov't to negotiate prices out of the legislation, how did he expect this spurious claim to be truthful? This is why the govt shouldn't be involved in establishing any type of Nat'l Healthcare Plan. Yep - perfect example why it should be privatized. Then as they did with microsoft and Bell Labs and ATT - bust all the pharmacutical companies up and claim non competitive - THEN we can really be sure of that quality.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #27 June 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteThis is why the govt shouldn't be involved in establishing any type of Nat'l Healthcare Plan. Ok, then. What should elderly people do? Gee Kevin.... hey, I know. Don't you libs support assisted suicide? This welfare state has got to end sometime. Perhaps drastic measures are necessary. Perhaps the reason people get towards the end of their lives and have nothing saved is because they have been endocrinated with the socialist mentality of depending on the gov't (read: other peoples kids and their own) to take care of them. Sometime hard choices have to be made and perhaps that is the only way to change socialistic attitudes. I thought that was only for Babies still in the womb. We need to keep those of us that are non productive and a danger to others that _WANT_ to die alive - well it's the only HUMANE thing to do.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #28 July 1, 2004 Quote>Gee Kevin.... hey, I know. Don't you libs support assisted suicide? >This welfare state has got to end sometime. Perhaps drastic measures are necessary. If we ever get to the point where we are happy to let the elderly die on the street due to lack of health care, so we can save a few bucks - we will have lost much of what makes the US great. One of our strengths (perhaps up until now) has been our compassion, both to other countries who need our help and our own citizens who find themselves in need. But I'm not too worried. As soon as one party aligns themselves with the "let em all die" philosophy, the opposing party will quickly regain control of the US. Most Americans are really not that heartless, despite what some might believe. So whats your solution, Bill. Is it fair to cause someone in their 20 to 40 to have to sacrifice their income to support an elderly person who for what ever reason failed to plan for themselves? The costs just keep going higher and higher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #29 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo, you're advocating just cutting them off? Something has to be done. We can't keep relying on future tax dollars from our children and their children. Right, they'll be too busy paying off GWB's record deficits.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #30 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuote> But I'm not too worried. As soon as one party aligns themselves with the "let em all die" philosophy, the opposing party will quickly regain control of the US. Most Americans are really not that heartless, despite what some might believe. Indeed- knowing who actually votes in elections it would be suicide. Quote So whats your solution, Bill. Is it fair to cause someone in their 20 to 40 to have to sacrifice their income to support an elderly person who for what ever reason failed to plan for themselves? The costs just keep going higher and higher. That particular generation sacrificed by fighting in lots of world wars, the result of which made America the leader of the world, not just one of many. That aside, I'd rather see us taxing people for being fat or smoking than I would for them getting old, if we have to make a choice. Someone whose lifestyle leads them to cardiac surjury just cost us all a ton of money. There is something very troubling about the price increases. The whole plan seemed a bit silly when I heard it, and now what do we have? This is the sort of thing that drives people to buy their drugs from Canada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #31 July 1, 2004 I think the arguement has to change from how we can fund healthcare and retirement for the elderly to how we can encourage people to save their money for retirement. To me, the problem with how we care for the elderly is similar to the same problem we had with people on welfare. With welfare, we threw billions of $$$$ at it over a 40 year period and it just went down a black hole and created more and more dependence on Government. It wasn't until we told people to get off their asses and get a job, because their benefits were going to be eliminated, that the problem began to get better. I think the same approach needs to be taken to get people to stop buying the latest stereos, automobiles, gadgets, whatever... and start putting money away for old age. To continue to throw more and more ever increasing money at it I think will have the same results as the old welfare. We need to start to change the mindset before any real change can occur. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 July 1, 2004 QuoteRight, they'll be too busy paying off GWB's record deficits. Thanks for your usual "constructive" reply. That really helps advance the conversation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #33 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteTry getting a job if they're 65 and didn't save enough to retire. People are living to 90; that's 25 years of Medicare and social security. The system was never designed for that. My Mom's prescriptions cost more a month than she ever earned in a month. She didn't choose to have health problems, and she saved nicely for retirement. What now? Um, you say "she saved nicely for retirement." I take that to mean she's got a bit of money... So why should this not be money she spends to maintainher health, vis a vis her prescriptions? "Oh, that's MY money, for Bingo and stuff..." Public dole money should not be given out just because someone is OLD, if they don't have a financial NEED for that money. The whole point, I thought, is to help out those who are in a tight spot, not to take over for those who can comfortably pay their own way. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #34 July 1, 2004 QuotePerhaps the reason people get towards the end of their lives and have nothing saved is because they have been endocrinated with the socialist mentality of depending on the gov't (read: other peoples kids and their own) to take care of them. Sometime hard choices have to be made and perhaps that is the only way to change socialistic attitudes. I agree with you, but I still find it LOL funny that you typed "endocrinated" where I think you meant "indoctrinated." --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #35 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell, for one, I'm not willing to cut off the medication to millions of seniors so that I can have a third tv in my one bedroom apartment. Do you consider yourself a serf? At what point would you? How much do you pay to the government in income taxes? Real estate? Sales? SSI? ... This month I paid $2750 in federal $682 Social Security....I max that out sometime in the summer $160 medicare $338 to the state $490 to the city and $10 for unemployment insurance. Sales tax, 7% I rent. No, I'm not a serf. I'm one of the people who is paying way more than I am receiving in benefits. Your point? Jesus, what the fuck do you DO, rob banks?! You paid in federal taxes double what I cleared last month. And making that kind of money, why the fuck do you RENT? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #36 July 1, 2004 Kevin.. politics aside for a minute. You really need to talk to a good CPA/Financial Advisor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #37 July 1, 2004 I would also add that since the Left wants us to be more like the French, we should consider assisted suicide. *** http://www.iht.com/articles/527375.html Reuters Thursday, July 1, 2004 PARIS France intends to changes its laws to allow terminally ill patients to opt for death over further treatment without legalizing euthanasia, Health Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said on Wednesday. . Douste-Blazy, speaking after a parliamentary report called for new laws to assure patients a dignified and painless death, said the National Assembly had a duty to clarify the rules for treating the terminally ill. The report said France should not simply copy the voluntary euthanasia now legal in Belgium and the Netherlands but that it should let patients or their families choose to end treatments that are simply delaying death. This would lift from doctors the threat of being charged with a crime if they stop caring for a terminal patient. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #38 July 1, 2004 Quote And making that kind of money, why the fuck do you RENT? There are many reasons not to. In SF a 6 figure income does not qualify you to buy a house alone, unless you're willing to make concessions, either on size or location. I don't think it makes good sense to buy a place by myself. Makes more sense settling down with someone - would suck to get a place now and then meet someone on the other side of the bay. Along those same lines - a homeowner doesn't have the flexibility to relocate. Or the flexibility to lose one's job. While in the long run it probably is a financial gain to buy a place, I'd rather have a bit more fun now when I know I'm alive, and a bit younger as well. It's funny - the Bay Area is full of people decrying the recent tax cuts, but all of them are taking a huge subsidy because they are homeowners. I have a hard time feeling any guilt when I don't have a 20k deduction for interest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #39 July 1, 2004 QuoteJesus, what the fuck do you DO, rob banks?! Not all skydivers live on ramein nooddles you know....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #40 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteJesus, what the fuck do you DO, rob banks?! Not all skydivers live on ramein nooddles you know.... The Real Ones do.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #41 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, for one, I'm not willing to cut off the medication to millions of seniors so that I can have a third tv in my one bedroom apartment. Do you consider yourself a serf? At what point would you? How much do you pay to the government in income taxes? Real estate? Sales? SSI? ... This month I paid $2750 in federal $682 Social Security....I max that out sometime in the summer $160 medicare $338 to the state $490 to the city and $10 for unemployment insurance. Sales tax, 7% I rent. No, I'm not a serf. I'm one of the people who is paying way more than I am receiving in benefits. Your point? Jesus, what the fuck do you DO, rob banks?! You paid in federal taxes double what I cleared last month. And making that kind of money, why the fuck do you RENT? - You need to change your politics. We liberals are clearly much better than you at making money.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #42 July 1, 2004 QuoteKevin.. politics aside for a minute. You really need to talk to a good CPA/Financial Advisor. OFF TOPIC: Well, my boss is the president of the international CFA (chartered financial analysts) and I work with an MBA from Wharton, BS from Villanova, BA from William and Mary, PhD from N. Carolina, BS from Delaware, another Wharton MBA with BA from Harvard, and a BS from Wharton with a BA from Penn. I get pretty good financial advice. As far as renting vs. buying. It's not always better to buy. Especially when where you live the average price of a 600 sq. ft. condo is about $300,000 plus the $300 a month in condo fees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #43 July 1, 2004 QuoteMBA from Wharton, BS from Villanova, BA from William and Mary, PhD from N. Carolina, BS from Delaware, another Wharton MBA with BA from Harvard, and a BS from Wharton with a BA from Penn. Cant wait for Kallend to start asking what school are those....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #44 July 1, 2004 QuoteThe costs just keep going higher and higher. Well obviously then we should just outsource our healthcare to India to bring the prices down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #45 July 1, 2004 QuoteUm, you say "she saved nicely for retirement." I take that to mean she's got a bit of money... So why should this not be money she spends to maintainher health, vis a vis her prescriptions? "Oh, that's MY money, for Bingo and stuff..." Because if she paid for all of her own prescriptions in cash money, she wouldn't have a place to live, wouldn't be able to eat and wouldn't be able to pay her utility bills. That's a really good strategy to get people to save for retirement, though. Hey, everybody, do without during your working years to save for retirement, but then you'll have to do without after you retire becasue you were smart enough to do that. Those of you who spent all your money will get a free hand out though. Tell me, what incentive would anyone have to plan for retirement then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #46 July 1, 2004 QuoteTo me, the problem with how we care for the elderly is similar to the same problem we had with people on welfare. With welfare, we threw billions of $$$$ at it over a 40 year period and it just went down a black hole and created more and more dependence on Government It did? Then why did the those who qualify for welfare, those who are under the poverty line, decline from 30% of the population in 1950 to 10.5% of the population in 1990? Per capita welfare payments peaked in the early seventies, a time when the poverty rate was appreciably declining. The poverty rate levelled off (stopped declining) only when government, under Ronald Reagan, scaled back social spending. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #47 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteKevin.. politics aside for a minute. You really need to talk to a good CPA/Financial Advisor. OFF TOPIC: Well, my boss is the president of the international CFA (chartered financial analysts) and I work with an MBA from Wharton, BS from Villanova, BA from William and Mary, PhD from N. Carolina, BS from Delaware, another Wharton MBA with BA from Harvard, and a BS from Wharton with a BA from Penn. I get pretty good financial advice. As far as renting vs. buying. It's not always better to buy. Especially when where you live the average price of a 600 sq. ft. condo is about $300,000 plus the $300 a month in condo fees. Not just talking about renting Vs Buying. I'm talking about tax shelters, deferred annuities etc. I make a pretty high income and I can tell you I don't pay anywhere near the Federal Taxes you do because of the tax planning I do. It's one thing to have a boss as you do, who clearly has a great deal of knowledge and experience but quite another to sit down with a paid advisor who takes a look at your entire financial picture and helps you plan for the future. Please don't take this personally, but this is what I mean when I say people fail to plan for their future. I live outside the Washington D.C. area which has some of the most expensive real estate in the country and there are plenty of opportunities to get your money working for you. Hey, it's your life, do what you want. I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt you to sit down with a paid financial advisor and get some advice based on your financial goals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #48 July 1, 2004 I appreciate the concern, but trust me, my annuities, tax free investments, etc. are maxed out. I've been contributing to a retirement fund since I was 18, that's 14 years ago. I get a SEPIRA from work, and I have a large chunk of money directly debited from my checking account the day I get paid and put into sheltered funds at Vanguard. My goal is to retire comfortably at 50, and I'm right on track for that. The renting vs. buying question was asked by someone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,174 #49 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteMBA from Wharton, BS from Villanova, BA from William and Mary, PhD from N. Carolina, BS from Delaware, another Wharton MBA with BA from Harvard, and a BS from Wharton with a BA from Penn. Cant wait for Kallend to start asking what school are those.... They're all OK except Delaware.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #50 July 1, 2004 QuoteI appreciate the concern, but trust me, my annuities, tax free investments, etc. are maxed out. I've been contributing to a retirement fund since I was 18, that's 14 years ago. I get a SEPIRA from work, and I have a large chunk of money directly debited from my checking account the day I get paid and put into sheltered funds at Vanguard. My goal is to retire comfortably at 50, and I'm right on track for that. The renting vs. buying question was asked by someone else. Then my hats off to you if you are still paying that much in taxes after what seems to be a pretty good plan of diversified investments. I would still disagree with you about renting vs buying though. I bought my current house last year for $375.000. and it's worth $450,000. right now. Thats $75,000. in appreciation in 1 year plus the tax deduction. That totals to a gain of close to $95,000 in one year and thats just on my primary residence. Plus a low interest equity loan is available if I need the money. Or I could have rented a townhouse for $2500. per month and paid someone elses mortgage with no appreciation for myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
PhillyKev 0 #45 July 1, 2004 QuoteUm, you say "she saved nicely for retirement." I take that to mean she's got a bit of money... So why should this not be money she spends to maintainher health, vis a vis her prescriptions? "Oh, that's MY money, for Bingo and stuff..." Because if she paid for all of her own prescriptions in cash money, she wouldn't have a place to live, wouldn't be able to eat and wouldn't be able to pay her utility bills. That's a really good strategy to get people to save for retirement, though. Hey, everybody, do without during your working years to save for retirement, but then you'll have to do without after you retire becasue you were smart enough to do that. Those of you who spent all your money will get a free hand out though. Tell me, what incentive would anyone have to plan for retirement then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #46 July 1, 2004 QuoteTo me, the problem with how we care for the elderly is similar to the same problem we had with people on welfare. With welfare, we threw billions of $$$$ at it over a 40 year period and it just went down a black hole and created more and more dependence on Government It did? Then why did the those who qualify for welfare, those who are under the poverty line, decline from 30% of the population in 1950 to 10.5% of the population in 1990? Per capita welfare payments peaked in the early seventies, a time when the poverty rate was appreciably declining. The poverty rate levelled off (stopped declining) only when government, under Ronald Reagan, scaled back social spending. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #47 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteKevin.. politics aside for a minute. You really need to talk to a good CPA/Financial Advisor. OFF TOPIC: Well, my boss is the president of the international CFA (chartered financial analysts) and I work with an MBA from Wharton, BS from Villanova, BA from William and Mary, PhD from N. Carolina, BS from Delaware, another Wharton MBA with BA from Harvard, and a BS from Wharton with a BA from Penn. I get pretty good financial advice. As far as renting vs. buying. It's not always better to buy. Especially when where you live the average price of a 600 sq. ft. condo is about $300,000 plus the $300 a month in condo fees. Not just talking about renting Vs Buying. I'm talking about tax shelters, deferred annuities etc. I make a pretty high income and I can tell you I don't pay anywhere near the Federal Taxes you do because of the tax planning I do. It's one thing to have a boss as you do, who clearly has a great deal of knowledge and experience but quite another to sit down with a paid advisor who takes a look at your entire financial picture and helps you plan for the future. Please don't take this personally, but this is what I mean when I say people fail to plan for their future. I live outside the Washington D.C. area which has some of the most expensive real estate in the country and there are plenty of opportunities to get your money working for you. Hey, it's your life, do what you want. I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt you to sit down with a paid financial advisor and get some advice based on your financial goals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #48 July 1, 2004 I appreciate the concern, but trust me, my annuities, tax free investments, etc. are maxed out. I've been contributing to a retirement fund since I was 18, that's 14 years ago. I get a SEPIRA from work, and I have a large chunk of money directly debited from my checking account the day I get paid and put into sheltered funds at Vanguard. My goal is to retire comfortably at 50, and I'm right on track for that. The renting vs. buying question was asked by someone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #49 July 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteMBA from Wharton, BS from Villanova, BA from William and Mary, PhD from N. Carolina, BS from Delaware, another Wharton MBA with BA from Harvard, and a BS from Wharton with a BA from Penn. Cant wait for Kallend to start asking what school are those.... They're all OK except Delaware.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 July 1, 2004 QuoteI appreciate the concern, but trust me, my annuities, tax free investments, etc. are maxed out. I've been contributing to a retirement fund since I was 18, that's 14 years ago. I get a SEPIRA from work, and I have a large chunk of money directly debited from my checking account the day I get paid and put into sheltered funds at Vanguard. My goal is to retire comfortably at 50, and I'm right on track for that. The renting vs. buying question was asked by someone else. Then my hats off to you if you are still paying that much in taxes after what seems to be a pretty good plan of diversified investments. I would still disagree with you about renting vs buying though. I bought my current house last year for $375.000. and it's worth $450,000. right now. Thats $75,000. in appreciation in 1 year plus the tax deduction. That totals to a gain of close to $95,000 in one year and thats just on my primary residence. Plus a low interest equity loan is available if I need the money. Or I could have rented a townhouse for $2500. per month and paid someone elses mortgage with no appreciation for myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
