PhillyKev 0 #1 June 30, 2004 ....say the drug companies. Drug Prices Rose After Medicare Law QuoteAt a campaign event earlier this month, Bush said prescription drug cards mandated by the new Medicare law will save the elderly at least 15 to 30 percent. After he personally pushed to have the ability of the gov't to negotiate prices out of the legislation, how did he expect this spurious claim to be truthful? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #2 June 30, 2004 Quote....say the drug companies. Drug Prices Rose After Medicare Law QuoteAt a campaign event earlier this month, Bush said prescription drug cards mandated by the new Medicare law will save the elderly at least 15 to 30 percent. After he personally pushed to have the ability of the gov't to negotiate prices out of the legislation, how did he expect this spurious claim to be truthful? This is why the govt shouldn't be involved in establishing any type of Nat'l Healthcare Plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #3 June 30, 2004 QuoteThis is why the govt shouldn't be involved in establishing any type of Nat'l Healthcare Plan. Ok, then. What should elderly people do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #4 June 30, 2004 QuoteOk, then. What should elderly people do? Try getting a job if they're 65 and didn't save enough to retire. People are living to 90; that's 25 years of Medicare and social security. The system was never designed for that. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #5 June 30, 2004 QuoteTry getting a job if they're 65 and didn't save enough to retire. People are living to 90; that's 25 years of Medicare and social security. The system was never designed for that. My Mom's prescriptions cost more a month than she ever earned in a month. She didn't choose to have health problems, and she saved nicely for retirement. What now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #6 June 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteOk, then. What should elderly people do? Try getting a job if they're 65 and didn't save enough to retire. People are living to 90; that's 25 years of Medicare and social security. The system was never designed for that. Fair enough. I've always found that the bottom line of the worth of a society is how it takes care of its most vulnerable members: the young and the old.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #7 June 30, 2004 QuoteI've always found that the bottom line of the worth of a society is how it takes care of its most vulnerable members: the young and the old. Then don't get old in any socialized medicine country. For the benefit of society, it does not make sense to simply continue to take care of older and non-productive members. Health care is rationed in socialized medicine systems. IN that respect, governments make choices to provide more to those who can give back. If the government has to choose between providing lifesaving cancer treatment to an 80 year old man and a 25 year old, the government will decide in favor of the young man who will have more to offer to society. Look no further than Europe or Canada for that. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #8 June 30, 2004 QuoteLook no further than Europe or Canada for that. Lived in both, have parents that fit the bill, and I pretty much dissagree with your opinion based on my experience.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #9 June 30, 2004 Having lived in both Canada and the US, I've only seen treatment denied to the elderly in the US. Your assumptions are quite simply, false. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #10 June 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteThis is why the govt shouldn't be involved in establishing any type of Nat'l Healthcare Plan. Ok, then. What should elderly people do? Gee Kevin.... hey, I know. Don't you libs support assisted suicide? This welfare state has got to end sometime. Perhaps drastic measures are necessary. Perhaps the reason people get towards the end of their lives and have nothing saved is because they have been endocrinated with the socialist mentality of depending on the gov't (read: other peoples kids and their own) to take care of them. Sometime hard choices have to be made and perhaps that is the only way to change socialistic attitudes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #11 June 30, 2004 So, you're advocating just cutting them off? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #12 June 30, 2004 QuoteSo, you're advocating just cutting them off? Something has to be done. We can't keep relying on future tax dollars from our children and their children. It has to end sometime. This is the results of 50 years of Liberal policies. Sad isn't it? You have any suggestions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #13 June 30, 2004 >Gee Kevin.... hey, I know. Don't you libs support assisted suicide? >This welfare state has got to end sometime. Perhaps drastic measures are necessary. If we ever get to the point where we are happy to let the elderly die on the street due to lack of health care, so we can save a few bucks - we will have lost much of what makes the US great. One of our strengths (perhaps up until now) has been our compassion, both to other countries who need our help and our own citizens who find themselves in need. But I'm not too worried. As soon as one party aligns themselves with the "let em all die" philosophy, the opposing party will quickly regain control of the US. Most Americans are really not that heartless, despite what some might believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #14 June 30, 2004 QuoteMy Mom's prescriptions cost more a month than she ever earned in a month. She didn't choose to have health problems, and she saved nicely for retirement. What now? I can't comment on your mother, but I do have a problem with subsidizing people who are able to work and have means of their own. The government should help those that truly cannot help themselves or perhaps a better solution is for the government to take up to 100% of their estates to pay back what they received. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #15 June 30, 2004 QuoteSomething has to be done. We can't keep relying on future tax dollars from our children and their children. It has to end sometime. This is the results of 50 years of Liberal policies. Sad isn't it? You have any suggestions? Well, for one, I'm not willing to cut off the medication to millions of seniors so that I can have a third tv in my one bedroom apartment. My solution is to allow the government to negotiate rates with the pharmaceutical companies. It would also include allowing seniors to import medication from countries where they are cheaper. It would also include providing basic healthcare to all Americans so that those who go their entire lives without any preventative care don't end up being bigger burdens due to the acute medical problems they develop as a result. It would also include restructuring SS instead of just promising to during my campaign and then ignoring it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 June 30, 2004 QuoteI can't comment on your mother Good call....i'd have to kick your ass to protect my street cred QuoteThe government should help those that truly cannot help themselves or perhaps a better solution is for the government to take up to 100% of their estates to pay back what they received. I don't know about you, but I get this tax taken out of my pay check every month that is specifically for medicaire. Using my mother as an example again, she has been paying into medicaire her entire working life. Don't you think she should be able to get back some of HER money in the form of medicaid? And if you want to take 100% of someone's estate so that they can afford medicine to live, what's your opinion of the estate tax? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #17 June 30, 2004 QuoteWell, for one, I'm not willing to cut off the medication to millions of seniors so that I can have a third tv in my one bedroom apartment. Do you consider yourself a serf? At what point would you? How much do you pay to the government in income taxes? Real estate? Sales? SSI? ... -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #18 June 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteWell, for one, I'm not willing to cut off the medication to millions of seniors so that I can have a third tv in my one bedroom apartment. Do you consider yourself a serf? At what point would you? How much do you pay to the government in income taxes? Real estate? Sales? SSI? ... This month I paid $2750 in federal $682 Social Security....I max that out sometime in the summer $160 medicare $338 to the state $490 to the city and $10 for unemployment insurance. Sales tax, 7% I rent. No, I'm not a serf. I'm one of the people who is paying way more than I am receiving in benefits. Your point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #19 June 30, 2004 QuoteNo, I'm not a serf. I'm one of the people who is paying way more than I am receiving in benefits. Your point? A serf only had to pay 1/3 to the feudal lord. Also, you're confusing Medicaid (low income) with Medicare (65+). Medicare pays about 80% of "reasonable", Medicaid closer to 20% -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #20 June 30, 2004 QuoteAlso, you're confusing Medicaid (low income) with Medicare (65+). That's true...I tried to correct the thread title but it was too late. But this entire thread is about medicare, not medicaid. Reference the linked article. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #21 June 30, 2004 QuoteAnd if you want to take 100% of someone's estate so that they can afford medicine to live, what's your opinion of the estate tax? I despise the estate tax. That said why should the government pay for someone who can pay for themselves? The option I proffered allows people to defer expenses for medication. The other thing that should go into effect is not allowing providers to charge less to people with private insurance. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #22 June 30, 2004 Ok, so you take someone's house, their savings, all of their assets. Because they couldn't pay for their medicine. Now who pays their rent, their food, and their utility bills? EDIT....to thank you for allowing me to participate in one of these discussions in an adult manner without making broad generalizations or politicized stereotypical accusations and name calling. It's a nice change and why I usually enjoy this forum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #23 June 30, 2004 No, you let them eat, live, etc. and when they've reached the end, they help defer someone else's expenses for medicine, if there's anything left. I remember one woman, a full member of a country club, wondering how they were going to pay for their kids' college. The thing that bugs me is when the people who save and make do, are then put in the same class as people who spent everything and expect to be taken care. I don't know the solution. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 June 30, 2004 Quotewhen they've reached the end, they help defer someone else's expenses for medicine, if there's anything left. And how does that differ from an estate tax? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #25 June 30, 2004 One's robbing from the rich. The other is paying for what you consumed, if you can. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
