How 'bout that economy?

[Gawain 0]

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123974,00.html

You were saying, Mr. Kerry et al?


Vinny the Anvil

Ooo boy. Fox News. Now there's a good unimpeachable source.

Again, I point you to the "Associated Press" by-line in the header of the article.

For all the "FoxNews" bashers, noting the by-line will help you, as in my observation, about 75%+ of the headlines they feed through are either direct AP feeds, or have AP contributions in them (which would be credited at the bottom of said article). It lends quite a bit of transparancy to their content. Compare that to CNN.com.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Uhhh, I have no problem with NAFTA, I think it was a good thing. Not sure who would blame GWB for it especially since Clinton was the one who put it through. I also didn't have a problem with the tariffs on Canadian softwood being reduced.

Some of us don't have to be spoon fed what to think by a political party. Clearly, others do.

You seem to have a problem debating without the attacks today, man.

Stepping back, I don't know why you don't have a problem with NAFTA while blaming Bush for the migration of jobs elsewhere. That agreement was a big step - just look south of the border in TJ.

Like I said, outsourcing American jobs on behalf of corporations has been a bipartisan issue.

[kallend 2,150]

I'll belive the US is serious about free and fair trade the instant it abolishes the subsidies to sugar producers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tunaplanet 0]

The economy is booming right now. You can have the sheep spin it all you want byt bottom line it's doing great.

Forty-two

[PhillyKev 0]

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Stepping back, I don't know why you don't have a problem with NAFTA while blaming Bush for the migration of jobs elsewhere

Look again at what I said about where we should have free trade. GWB doesn't care if the country is ruled by a dictator, uses chld labor, pollutes the environment, or abuses their workers. He's only worried about cheap labor for big business.

Why did he actually pull a political move favorable to the left and introduce the tariffs on Canadian softwood? Because US companies don't profit from Canadian softwood. US companies do profit from child labor in third world countries. So them, he gives a free pass too. Real brilliant. Free trade with countries that predominantly export to us, but introduce tariffs against the largest importer of US goods.

[kallend 2,150]

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The economy is booming right now. You can have the sheep spin it all you want byt bottom line it's doing great.

It sure is. My retirement account is almost back where it was in 1999, and after taking account of health insurance premiums and fuel prices, my pay raises have almost kept pace with my expenses.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Manufacturing jobs now, eh? Just any old job isn't enough. Perhaps you're onto something, perhaps not. I don't like the diminishing of American manufacturing might - hence my anti-union/socialism bent - but don't think that sector of American industry has gone the way of the dodo quite yet.

Electing a man backed by socialists who is whiskey bent and hell bound on socializing medicine and pumping more $$ into a broken (union controlled) education system will REALLY help out that deficit, wouldn't it?

That's not really my issue. The pont I was making is really this. Job A does not = Job B. If you lose your six figure tech job to a guy in Bangalore, and wind up working a shift in Kinkos, followed by a second job on the swing shift at Burger king, the net result is one job created. It's also probably counted as a manufacturing job becuase you've constructed a burger there. Now, it all looks nice and rosy on paper, but then we all know how statistics lie, and if it was you, you probably wouln't be singing the praises of the administration.

The other point I was making was that the current administration has to carry the states where the loss of long term manufacturing jobs has been the greatest. Some of these communities have relied on some industires as almost single providers for whole economies for several generations. The roll over effect of long term losses there are devasting on the whole economy.

What John Kerry would or would not do as president is moot. If he gets elected, he's going to have his hands full trying to reduce a crippling deficit. That alone will curtail most plans for any extravagent social spending.

[gjhdiver 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123974,00.html

You were saying, Mr. Kerry et al?


Vinny the Anvil

Ooo boy. Fox News. Now there's a good unimpeachable source.

Again, I point you to the "Associated Press" by-line in the header of the article.

For all the "FoxNews" bashers, noting the by-line will help you, as in my observation, about 75%+ of the headlines they feed through are either direct AP feeds, or have AP contributions in them (which would be credited at the bottom of said article). It lends quite a bit of transparancy to their content. Compare that to CNN.com.

I don't have anything in particular against Fox News. They put their spin on the source Associated News material the same way CNN do theirs. The trick is to follow the source back to it's origin wherever possible, and make your own mind up.

[happythoughts 0]

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Uhhh...no. NAFTA was between only the US, Canada and Mexico. None of which fit that description.

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I support free trade with democratic nations that have minimum wage laws above the poverty level, that have minimum safety requirements, that enforce child labor laws, and that adhere to international treaties that effect industry such as pollution controls

I was trying to think which one of those things that Mexico has.

[PhillyKev 0]

Try harder. They meet all 4 criteria.

[rushmc 23]

Thanks to the Clinton tax increases we had to go through that.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Try harder. They meet all 4 criteria.

To a much lesser degree than Bush meets his requirements as a leader.

[happythoughts 0]

Mexico has a pollution control laws and a min wage?
I was under the impression that their pc laws were almost non-existent.

[PhreeZone 20]

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/govlab/legrel/papers/brfnotes/minwages/mexico3.htm History of the Mexician Minimum wage. Its interesting to see that they have one, but still large amounts of their population do not make it.

http://www.worldbank.org/html/dec/Publications/Workpapers/wps1514-abstract.html Comparison of Mexico and their lax wage enforcement vs Columbia and its improved wage enforcement.

I don't speak spanish, but here is a google return for polution standerds in Mexico:
http://www.natlaw.com/mexico/topical/environment/apmxen.htm

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[happythoughts 0]

Air pollution in Mexico City is legendary. However, that has been a long term problem. The one that comes to my mind was the 6 children born in Brownsville with anencephally (brain stem disorder). Exceedingly rare. It was determined that the large number was caused by the lax Mexican pollution standards.

Mex companies were dumping large quantities of toxic pollutants directly into the water, no attempt at treatment at all. There was even a tv investigative show that filmed them dumping stuff out of barrels down a ramp into the river.

[PhillyKev 0]

Same thing happens here. Love Canal. Question is, do they have laws against that kind of thing?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Same thing happens here. Love Canal. Question is, do they have laws against that kind of thing?

The question should be - do they enforce any laws against that sort of thing? While money can sometimes stave off attention here, it generally doesn't work long. There is a different matter.

[TheAnvil 0]

They can have ALGORE to discover all the Love Canals in Mexico since he's not doing anything productive now....

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

Yes, Al Gore...very relevant. Thanks.

[happythoughts 0]

clicky

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Donohue, speaking Wednesday night to the Commonwealth Club of California, said he believes exporting high-paid tech jobs to low-cost countries such as India, China and Russia saves companies money that they may use to create new jobs for Americans.

CEOs from Wall Street to Silicon Valley have embraced the theory, and the pace of offshoring has shocked statisticians and economists.

In early June, the Bureau of Labor Statistics downwardly revised projections for white-collar job growth for 2002-2012, based on accelerated job migration. The agency reported that seven of the 10 occupations expected to gain the most ground are low-wage occupations that do not require a college degree.

Technology consulting firm Gartner Inc. estimates that 10 percent of computer services and software jobs will be moved overseas by the end of this year.

An increase in the raw numbers of jobs is not the problem. The QUALITY of the job is the problem.

What will happen to the tax base when salaries are cut in half?
Who will fund Social Security? Those people are paying their taxes overseas.

What will be the point of getting a college education if all the research positions are going to China?

These people are selling the future of the country.

Quote

Donohue acknowledged the pain for people who have lost jobs to offshoring -- an estimated 250,000 a year, according to government estimates.

250, 000 a year.

Although call center jobs have been migrating to the Philippines and Malaysia since the 1990s, in the past two years cash-strapped companies have exported high-paying jobs in research and development, software engineering, chip design and biotechnology startups. Most of those jobs have gone to India and China, whose universities graduate hundreds of thousands of engineers each year.***

Let's see... call centers ($10/hr) and R&D, software, biotech, chips (high dollar).

It seems that only the low-paying and the high-paying jobs are leaving.

[Gravitymaster 0]

More U.S. jobs seen in June, buoying Bush
Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:38 PM ET

By Andrea Hopkins
WASHINGTON, June 30 (Reuters) - U.S. employment likely surged again in June, taking gains this year to some 1.4 million jobs and bolstering President George W. Bush's economic record ahead of the November election, analysts said onWednesday.

Economists believe 250,000 jobs were created this month, virtually matching May's jump of 248,000, though the unemployment rate probably will not budge from 5.6 percent because newly hopeful job-seekers are returning to the job market.

"I think the gains will be quite widespread again, and as we saw in April and May, we are likely to create slightly more higher-paying than lower-paying positions," said Lynn Reaser, chief economist at Banc of America Securities.

Even if the unemployment rate does not decline, analysts expect the Labor Department's closely watched payrolls report, due on Friday, to confirm broad strength in what months ago was still only a tepid economic recovery.

The creation of nearly a million jobs in the last three months ended years of worry about the slow recovery from the 2001 recession and cemented expectations the Federal Reserve will begin raising interest rates to head off inflation.

While 1.2 million jobs have been lost since Bush took office, that deficit could easily be erased if hiring continues at its recent pace, and talk of Bush being the president with the worst job record since Herbert Hoover has faded.

"The economy has turned very sharply in Bush's direction, so his biggest weakness is becoming a strength," said Cary Leahey, senior U.S. economist at Deutsche Bank Securities.

GOOD NEWS, BAD NEWS

The shift in political rhetoric from the "jobless recovery" lament of the Democrats to "nearly a million jobs in 100 days" of the Bush administration appears to have reached consumers, whose confidence levels hit the highest level in two years in June, according to a Conference Board report this week.

"They get the feeling that things have turned the corner and that's making them much more hopeful," said Joel Naroff, president and chief economist of Naroff Economic Advisors.

"They're beginning to focus more on the idea of fundamental economic and consumer confidence rather than the Iraq war that had been driving confidence previously," he added.

Friday's report is also expected to show a sixth straight monthly rise in hourly earnings, though the workweek will likely be unchanged at 33.8 hours, according to a Reuters survey of economists.

Longer hours and fatter paychecks are seen by experts as evidence the economy is on the threshold of even stronger job gains in the months ahead.

"The next step after increasing the length of the workweek, paying perhaps more overtime (or) hiring more temporary workers ... (is) hiring back some of the previously laid off workers or ramping up staffing in general," Reaser said.

But the improving job market and higher wages also herald a shift in the stance of the Federal Reserve, which is expected to raise official interest rates several times this year to prevent price increases from overheating the economy.

The market is betting the Fed will raise rates a quarter of a percentage point on Wednesday and by another 25 or 50 basis points in August -- a politically sensitive move because higher rates are unpopular with America's debt-ridden voters.

"(Another strong job report) will, at least in the eyes of the market, increase the pressure on the Fed that they need to do 50 in August and they're behind the curve," Leahey said.

"I just don't think the Fed is ready, in a political election year, to pick up the pace that rapidly, but it is possible," he said.

[TheAnvil 0]

Oh. I see pointing out once again that he's a liar bothers you.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

For all the "beliefs" and "probablys" and "I thinks" in the article you posted, the actual report that came out today is a little different.

Quote

A government report showed the number of Americans seeking first-time unemployment benefits rose unexpectedly last week. The weekly report may be a harbinger of a less than stellar report on June nonfarm payrolls, which comes out on Friday, traders said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=580&e=5&u=/nm/20040701/bs_nm/markets_stocks_dc

[Gravitymaster 0]

Yep, about as many maybe's, Could be's, and might indicate's as your article.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123974,00.html

You were saying, Mr. Kerry et al?


Vinny the Anvil

Ooo boy. Fox News. Now there's a good unimpeachable source.

Again, I point you to the "Associated Press" by-line in the header of the article.

For all the "FoxNews" bashers, noting the by-line will help you, as in my observation, about 75%+ of the headlines they feed through are either direct AP feeds, or have AP contributions in them (which would be credited at the bottom of said article). It lends quite a bit of transparancy to their content. Compare that to CNN.com.

I don't have anything in particular against Fox News. They put their spin on the source Associated News material the same way CNN do theirs. The trick is to follow the source back to it's origin wherever possible, and make your own mind up.

The by-line tells all. If Fox News makes a contribution to an AP article, you'll see a "Fox News" by-line and a note at the bottom as to whether or not other sources contributed to the report. CNN will note the by-line in the initial paragraph in parentheses (ex: New York (CNN) -- ... ). If Fox put a "spin" on an AP article, altered it and kept the AP by-line, that would constitute libel (I think).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!