Should the voting age be 14?

[kallend 2,148]

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Right. I'd suggest a test before getting registered to vote, like they had in the south until about 40 years ago.
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WOW! Me and Kallend are in complete agreement for once. (Assuming he is not being sarcastic)

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic. And that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. First of all, GWB probably would never have been allowed to vote. Secondly, did you ever see the Simpsons when they tried ruling based on brain power? Even Steven Hawkings didn't think it was a good idea.

Not to mention all you right-wingers would be whining all the time since the more education one has, the more likely they are to be liberal. Your whole voting base of red neck hicks would lose the right to vote.

Of course it was a good idea, it kept all those uppity blacks from voting, didn't it?

I like the idea of a test. Can't use a subjunctive, no vote. Confuse "there", "their" and "they're", no vote. Write "must of" instead of "must have", no vote. Confuse "affect" with "effect" or "imply" with "infer", or "accept" with "except", no vote.

Maybe throw in some physics too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

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if only people who understood what they were voting for had the right to vote.

Ok, test question number one. Explain the difference between a right and a privilege.

I don't think you'll be admitted to the polling place on election day.

[Steel 0]

Ok, test question number one. Explain the difference between a right and a privilege.

I don't think you'll be admitted to the polling place on election day.
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Talking to you, is like clapping with one hand. "Caught In A Mosh" -Anthrax
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Its no surprise that you are either missing the point or spinning it. The point is not to have only intellectuals voting, but to only have people who know what they are voting for. If you don't know what the president's job is, then who are you to say wether or not he is qualified to it or not? Its that simple.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[PhillyKev 0]

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who are you to say wether or not he is qualified to it or not? Its that simple.

A citizen of the US. A country that chooses to acknowledge that RIGHTS are something that everyone is born with and that choosing your representatives is one of those rights. THAT is simple.

[Steel 0]

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who are you to say wether or not he is qualified to it or not? Its that simple.

A citizen of the US. A country that chooses to acknowledge that RIGHTS are something that everyone is born with and that choosing your representatives is one of those rights. THAT is simple.

Well you have stated your case just as I have stated mine. At this point we can let the others reading decide what they think is fair. But since you brought up the question of right and privilege. I thought I would let you know that voting is a privilege as it stands. In case didn't know, according to our current laws, convicted felons loose their right to vote, which makes it a privilege not just a right.

Main Entry: 1priv·i·lege
Pronunciation: 'priv-lij, 'pri-v&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin privilegium law for or against a private person, from privus private + leg-, lex law
: a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor :

Cheers,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If somebody does not understand the what the jobs of the judicial, legislative, or exectutive branches of government are, then I think their vote is useless. If a 14 year can prove to understand this......

I don't know about now, but years ago to get out of the 8th grade (in Calif), I had to pass a test on the constitution/government and memorize the Preamble. If you did not pass, you did not move up; no exceptions. I passed, but I was not ready to pick a candidate for president. I would have voted like my parents. I don't think the majority of 14 year olds are ready.

Wasn't around in the 80s. 12th graders generally have a semester of civics, probably is required. But honestly, knowledge of how the 3 branches are supposed to work is a lovely exercise, but then you'll have to tell them in college how much BS was in that. Talk about the Imperial Presidency, or the abuse of the fillibuster in the Senate, or the politicization of the courts, esp in the level where people want to become Supremes.

This 14yo proposal is DOA because 16yos would have a half vote and 14yos would have a quarter vote. Even if you thought they deserve some voice, it's totally unworkable, and if they have a voice, it's one person, one vote. We got rid of the fractional stuff a long time ago.

Very few teens actually pay taxes on income earned - they don't earn enough to get over the threshold, and SS is "an investment in their retirement" (hahahah). Sales taxes paid on money their parents earned doesn't count either.

There needs to be a cut off point somewhere and 18 serves the purpose quite well. Before then they still have guardians to look out for their interests. Perhaps independent teens with a full time work should have more representation, but I don't know how that can be achieved with more issues than gains.

[PhillyKev 0]

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according to our current laws, convicted felons loose their right to vote, which makes it a privilege not just a right.

Ummm...no. First off, you just said, "they lose their right". But besides that, when you are convicted of a felony you are givign up your rights through the overt act of comitting a felony. In other words, you have the right until you voluntarily do something to relenquish it. A privelage is something you have to do something to earn. Like driving, you have to overtly go out and get a license. Your'e not automatically given one.

By your logic, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are also privilages and not the unalienable rights they are supposed to be since you can lose any of them by commiting a felony.

[Jimbo 0]

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convicted felons loose their right to vote,

Are you sure about that

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[billvon 3,116]

>Well, we "adults" can't be influenced easily and politicians are running out of "new bullshit" . . .

Yep. Next thing you know they will be sending people checks drawn against THEIR OWN TAX PAYMENTS and people will think it's great.

[PhillyKev 0]

Stop, Bill. Don't confuse people with the truth. We live in magical lollipop land on gum drop lane.

I'm willing to bet 4 out of 5 GWB supporters have no idea what you're talking about.

[kallend 2,148]

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who are you to say wether or not he is qualified to it or not? Its that simple.

A citizen of the US. A country that chooses to acknowledge that RIGHTS are something that everyone is born with and that choosing your representatives is one of those rights. THAT is simple.

Where is it written what rights we are born with, and how rights can be taken away (as opposed to relinquished). The Declaration of Independence has no legal standing that I know of. Has the Tenth Amendment ever been cited as a reason to put a curb on the federal government's powers?

As far as I can see, the only rights that haven't been abridged by the government in some way are - er - um - let me think awhile.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Everyone paying taxes should be allowed to vote, and anyone not footing the bills shouldn't have a say in how the money is spent.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm willing to bet 4 out of 5 GWB supporters have no idea what you're talking about.

We're not too far removed from a time when the GOP stood for a balanced budget (at least on paper) and the Democrats were the tax and spenders.

Actually, I think quite a few in the Democratic party are true to those roots, but they seem more restrained to this new era of not tax but still spend Republicans.

[wmw999 2,588]

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Everyone paying taxes should be allowed to vote

That would include an awful lot of people who aren't citizens, including illegal aliens. Nope, don't think so.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[PhillyKev 0]

Actually it was a reference to "tax rebates" which were actually just an advance on tax refunds for the following year. They sent everyone a check, and everyone thought they were getting something extra back, but your refund was reduced by that amount, or your liability if you owed was increased by that amount when you filed.

Most people didn't understand that and thought GWB gave them a gift.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Actually it was a reference to "tax rebates" which were actually just an advance on tax refunds for the following year. They sent everyone a check, and everyone thought they were getting something extra back, but your refund was reduced by that amount, or your liability if you owed was increased by that amount when you filed.

Most people didn't understand that and thought GWB gave them a gift.

Ah, that. I appreciated the gesture - for individuals it is better that they not be making interest free loans to the Feds. The point of those checks was that the tax rate had been reduced midway through the year, so people were already overwithholding even if they set their W4 correctly.

Obviously the Feds lose money on the deal, but hoped to get what they did - lots of consumer spending.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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No. That's just stupid and isn't going to happen.

I just can't seem to figure out why they would try to do this. I'm thinkin real hard. Do you have any idea why?

Because they just haven't thought about how DISASTROUS it would be if CHILDREN at that age, with the attendant maturity level were given power over who GOVERNS us.

Ironically, I'd bet that these are the same people who are outraged when children are sentenced as adults when they commit murder at 15 or 16 years old.

People dumb enough to wish for something like this are part of the PROBLEM with democracy giving everyone's voice an equal say. Democracy doesn't provide any guarantee that what people suggest (and god forbid we find that they're in the majority) is not utterly stupid, dangerous, unworkable, or just plain wrong.

Paradoxically, we cannot round them up and ship them off to an island where their idiotic views can do no harm to our way of life, because that in itself would be unamerican.
*sigh*
We're resigned to having to simply oppose their moronic schemes whenever they rear their ugly heads.

Blue skies,
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Can anyone tell me why this is a good idea?

No taxation without representation.

I don't think it's a good idea either, but it does fit with one of the primary reasons this country was founded.

That's specious. While under the legal care of their parents, they ARE represented -- by their parents -- before the legislature. They themselves don't vote to elect their representatives (on taxation and otherwise) but their parents DO.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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No, I'm curious. Like I said, I think it's a bad idea. But how do you justify taxing people, not letting them vote, and rationalize that with the founding values of this nation?

Is "No taxation without representation" written into the Constitution?

Anyway, any child of a parent IS represented -- by the vote of their parent. That same child cannot sign a contract to go attend a private boarding school, or a waiver to take karate lessons, but their parent can. The parent is the proxy for all the legal decisions for that kid until that kid is 18 years old. Period.

What would you say of a child of parents who are both felons and who have not had their voting rights restored? None of them should have to pay taxes??

What about babies? Should they vote? How low do you set the age once you establish that 18 is unfair? What about a 7 or 8 year old kid going to the store to buy candy? Can't tax him because he didn't get to vote on a candidate regarding the sales tax percentage? Let him vote so that he can?? No. His parents are his voice in these matters, until he's 18.

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I can think of a good way to do it. If Bush ever gets around to one of his main campaign promises and works on changing SS, how about all taxes from those under 18 go into a retirement fund for themselves?

Yeah, and to supplement for the BILLIONS of dollars that would not be going into all other government coffers, YOUR taxes, and those of all over-18s, would skyrocket. You ready for that, or is this another half-baked liberal scheme that is as unworkable as it is poorly thought-out?

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I can't imagine a large portion of the tax base comes from minors, it will give them a head start toward retirement, and you're not really taxing them without representation since all the money still belongs to them.

Should this plan be based on the flimsy argument that "you can't imagine" it?

Again, this "taxation without representation" argument is specious.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Democrats try to lower the voting age in California to 14. Can anyone tell me why this is a good idea?

http://www.sacunion.com/leadstory/131_0_10_0/

Why would anybody be surprised? The Democrats are already the party so desperate that they're scrambling to get felons to vote for them.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Stop, Bill. Don't confuse people with the truth. We live in magical lollipop land on gum drop lane.

I'm willing to bet 4 out of 5 GWB supporters have no idea what you're talking about.

That is, a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane... With elves, and leprechauns and magic frogs who wear funny little hats...

Great episode!

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Everyone paying taxes should be allowed to vote, and anyone not footing the bills shouldn't have a say in how the money is spent.

According to what? The Constitution? Not hardly.
There is no law that I'm aware of that says a 12-year-old cannot buy a car from a dealership. Let's say that the kid has enough money to buy a Cadillac Escalade. He's gonna pay a fortune in gas-guzzler tax, luxury tax, sales tax... You think that by virtue of paying taxes, he should be able to vote, which would give him a say in just about every other facet of politics?

That's ridiculous.
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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[MarkM 0]

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Secondly, did you ever see the Simpsons when they tried ruling based on brain power? Even Steven Hawkings didn't think it was a good idea.

Oh yeah? Well, I personally knew Wyle E. Coyote who's far smarter than Hawkings ever was on the Simpsons, and I can assure you he would've thought ruling based on brain power was a good idea.

Though sadly, since his ACME atomic scooter malfunctioned and slammed him into a cliff, he can't be here to state that opinion. But RR would back me up on that.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Democrats try to lower the voting age in California to 14. Can anyone tell me why this is a good idea?

http://www.sacunion.com/leadstory/131_0_10_0/

Why would anybody be surprised? The Democrats are already the party so desperate that they're scrambling to get felons to vote for them.

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But we've just been told the more educated you are the more likely you are to be Liberal. How can that statement be true when the Democrats want felons, illegal immigrants, 14 year olds and people on public assistance counted as their core constituents? I mean we are supposed to believe that people who can't even figure out how to use a voting machine are the most intelligent members of society? How come it was only Democrats who couldn't figure out how to use a voting machine? How come Republicans never had a problem figuring it out?

[skydyvr 0]

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But we've just been told the more educated you are the more likely you are to be Liberal.

We've been told that, but I'd sure love to see the stats.

Maybe the poster meant the more of an educator you are, the more liberal you tend to be.

In any event, being intelligent and being educated aren't nearly the same thing. I've known many professional educators that wander about proving it every day.

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