Ron 10
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And you seem to miss the point that the rule in Florida regarding felons was newly initiated that year and selectively applied in predominantly democratic counties. But I guess that wasn't intentional.
And what about the voters who registered in plenty of time for the November 7 election, but whose names were never placed on the rolls and who were not allowed to vote. Some names of residents who took advantage of motor-voter legislation and registered at the same time that they obtained licenses from the Department of Motor Vehicles were not on voter rolls. And how about the election board members who suspected that such problems might occur, provided laptop computers with which poll workers could check central voter rolls. But almost none were used in precincts that were majority black. In Miami-Dade, for example, out of eighteen laptops, only one was used in a black precinct.
And how about the police setting up road blocks on election day on the only road leading to a polling place in a black precinct?
I think their votes should have counted. I think the military ballots should have counted. I think everyone who wanted to vote should have been able to. You're the one who's always harping about the law the law the law. Well, the law was twisted, manipulated, and broken in order to disenfranchise voters in Florida.
I could give a flying fuck that it may have cost Gore the election. That's over and in the past. But I don't think it should be ignored and not corrected.
And what about the voters who registered in plenty of time for the November 7 election, but whose names were never placed on the rolls and who were not allowed to vote. Some names of residents who took advantage of motor-voter legislation and registered at the same time that they obtained licenses from the Department of Motor Vehicles were not on voter rolls. And how about the election board members who suspected that such problems might occur, provided laptop computers with which poll workers could check central voter rolls. But almost none were used in precincts that were majority black. In Miami-Dade, for example, out of eighteen laptops, only one was used in a black precinct.
And how about the police setting up road blocks on election day on the only road leading to a polling place in a black precinct?
I think their votes should have counted. I think the military ballots should have counted. I think everyone who wanted to vote should have been able to. You're the one who's always harping about the law the law the law. Well, the law was twisted, manipulated, and broken in order to disenfranchise voters in Florida.
I could give a flying fuck that it may have cost Gore the election. That's over and in the past. But I don't think it should be ignored and not corrected.
Ron 10
QuoteAnd you seem to miss the point that the rule in Florida regarding felons was newly initiated that year and selectively applied in predominantly democratic counties. But I guess that wasn't intentional
To quote you:
QuoteBut in Miami-Dade, they also appeared to defy the Division of Elections in order to make it easier for those ex-felons to vote. They did not require the written proof ordered by the policy, but rather allowed the ex-felons to mail in an affidavit vouching their rights had been automatically restored in another state.
Looks like it was not "selectively applied" there. Looks like it was made much easier...And remember VERY few felons vote Republican.
So you are blaming a process put into place, by no one in particular that ALLOWS felons to vote if they can prove they are allowed that had issues in it...Also ya think some of the people with the names of felons might have voted for GWB? I mean I could have been not allowed to vote casue some guy named Ron robed a 7-11...
However Gore went after and tried to disallow a group that was known to be Republican.
Again in one case you have a badly written and executed procedure that hurt both Gore and Bush. And int he other situation you had a situation where a guy tried to eliminate a certain group which he knew would be for Bush.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
QuoteLooks like it was not "selectively applied" there. Looks like it was made much easier...And remember VERY few felons vote Republican.
Yes it was made easier for them, IN A PREDOMINANTLY REPUBLICAN county.
Ron 10
QuoteYes it was made easier for them, IN A PREDOMINANTLY REPUBLICAN county.
Oh geeze..I give up.
It's clear that every thing and everyone in Florida who had any political power arranged the election to screw democrats...Including making it easier to allow felons to vote, or even letting them vote at all (who we all know just LOVE republican canidates
).
It is also clear that those clever Republicans managed to make an election ballot that was only hard for Democrats to understand...What a marvel of pyshociological engeneering to make a ballot that only a Republican could understand.
It is also clear that a seperate branch of government (The Supreme Court who are appointed for life) felt that they had to support GWB for fear of????? Fear of???? Well he can't fire them so I don't know why they did it...But it is clear they did.
Good God.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
dbattman 0
Let's head for the pub, Ron. I'm buying the first round. 
What's that thing about arguing on the Internet beeing like the Special Olympics?
What's that thing about arguing on the Internet beeing like the Special Olympics?
You're right, there was absolutely no basis for controversy and everything was done to legitimately count all votes by everyone involved. Nothing to see here, move along. Let's not fix the broken system.
Once again, I'm not trying to claim the election was stolen or that the final outcome was not correct. I'm saying that there are problems with the system down there that should be fixed. Why are you so opposed to that?
Once again, I'm not trying to claim the election was stolen or that the final outcome was not correct. I'm saying that there are problems with the system down there that should be fixed. Why are you so opposed to that?
jimbarry 0
QuoteYou need to read the Federalist Papers! The electoral college worked exactly as designed. It is in place to make sure that the elections are a country wide decision not a choice based on large population centers. Perfect!!!!!It worked perfect
Yes, I see you're from Iowa. With the electoral college system, rural states get more effective weight for their individual votes than urban areas. A higher wingloading, if you will.
So of course you're in favor of it. Not because the Fed Papers said so.
What would be "perfect!!!!!" is if each American citizen's vote weighed exactly the same. And that's called the Popular Vote. You already get 2 senators (for as many people as in my county!), and you get the same coverage for your congressmen. That's where the real power is, anyway...
Btw, I voted for Bush. I'm not a whiny Gore supporter squawking about the EC after the fact.
LoudDan 0
POW camps maybe...........and just for the record, I don't support what went on in the prison, but lets get back to the original topic of firing GWB and look at a few things first
FDR led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,333 per year.
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.
NOW, Consider THIS:
In the two years since terrorists attacked us,
President Bush has liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, and
put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot.
Captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
We lost 700 soldiers which is no doubt 700 too many, at an average of 350 a year.
Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
While the loss of our troops is terrible, lets be real, every one of them volunteered into the service, and took an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States (I know I took the same oath).
Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!
FDR led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,333 per year.
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.
NOW, Consider THIS:
In the two years since terrorists attacked us,
President Bush has liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, and
put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot.
Captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
We lost 700 soldiers which is no doubt 700 too many, at an average of 350 a year.
Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
While the loss of our troops is terrible, lets be real, every one of them volunteered into the service, and took an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States (I know I took the same oath).
Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!
QuoteGermany never attacked us: Japan did.
And right after Japan attacked us, Germany declared war against us.
QuoteTruman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
They attacked one of our allies.
QuoteJohn F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
That war was wrong for us to be involved.
QuoteClinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
That was a NATO operation.
QuoteHe was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.
Really? Can you elaborate?
QuoteIn the two years since terrorists attacked us,
President Bush has liberated two countries,
crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, and
put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot.
Iraq is still in wait and see mode, but I hope you're right. The Taliban are regrouping and have been extremely active recently. I wouldn't call AQ crippled, neither does GWB. In fact he's said he expects them to attack us again, that it's inevitable. Talks were already in progress with N. Korea, Libya and Iran prior to 9/11. The world attitude after 9/11 was the key factor, not anything GWB did.
QuoteBush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home
We won't count those people who got anthrax and died.
QuoteWhile the loss of our troops is terrible, lets be real, every one of them volunteered into the service, and took an oath to obey the orders of the President of the United States (I know I took the same oath).
There's something that I agree with.
kallend 2,148
Quote
FDR led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
Why are Americans so piss poor at their own history? Germany and Italy declared war on the US, 11th December 1941.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 3,116
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>Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
Perhaps you missed the historical first-ever biological attack against Washington, DC.
Perhaps you missed the historical first-ever biological attack against Washington, DC.
rushmc 23
Not because I am from Iowa......because it is right.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
No I am not wrong. Read and study. It worked as intended.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
crwtom 0
at least the Kerry's campaign isn't making these kinds of association -
on the other hand Bush has no problems with that:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8223-2004Jun26.html
on the other hand Bush has no problems with that:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8223-2004Jun26.html
*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true
kallend 2,148
QuoteNo I am not wrong. Read and study. It worked as intended.
It was intended to elect Bush?
You should read www.cs.unc.edu/~livingst/Banzhaf/
for a mathematically correct analysis of the electoral college and the way voting power is distributed. It is not as simple as you think.
Federalist makes it very clear that the electoral college was to dilute the power of the masses so that the elite could control the Presidency. Nothing to do with large vs small or urban vs rural.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
In fact, it's pretty clear that the intent of the electoral college was so that if the uneducated masses elected some ninny, then the electors could play their trump card and just pick someone else.
Remster 30
QuoteIn fact, it's pretty clear that the intent of the electoral college was so that if the uneducated masses elected some ninny, then the electors could play their trump card and just pick someone else.
So wtf happened last time?
Remster
QuoteQuoteIn fact, it's pretty clear that the intent of the electoral college was so that if the uneducated masses elected some ninny, then the electors could play their trump card and just pick someone else.
So wtf happened last time?
uneducated electoral college
jimbarry 0
QuoteNot because I am from Iowa......because it is right.
I'm sorry. Define the word "right" again for me? I'm a little slow. I'm sure the definition you give will be perfectly agreeable to everyone here.
Or better yet, explain again how it's wrong for each American citizen's vote to weigh exactly the same.
And thanks for telling me to read something I already read and understood in college. But somehow you knew that I hadn't. Still trying to figure that one out.
rushmc 23
I do not know what you are reading!!?? That is not the intent and it is NOT spoken of that way. The intent was to keep high population urban areas from having control of elections. It worked. Look at the map that show what counties picked Gore and what counties picked Bush. 30 to 1 or more. Get over it. Bush won by every count. The Supreme Court stopped an unprecedented attempt by a state court to affect a national election.
Rush Limbaugh is right. "The more the libs are out or power the funnier they get"
Rush Limbaugh is right. "The more the libs are out or power the funnier they get"
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
The system is as it is and as it is supposed to be. When it works for you it is great. When it does not ,you lable it bad or incorrect and say it is wrong. Bush won....get over it.
By the way.....my definition in this post for the word "you", is liberal....
By the way.....my definition in this post for the word "you", is liberal....
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Quotedo not know what you are reading!!?? That is not the intent and it is NOT spoken of that way.
Actually, it was. Us Americans should stop trying to argue with foreigners about our history. They always know it better than we do.
QuoteIt was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations
-Alexander Hamilton
http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012601.htm
I have ever considered the constitutional mode of election ultimately by the Legislature voting by States as the most dangerous blot in our Constitution, and one which some unlucky chance will some day hit and give us a pope and antipope. - Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to George Hay, 1823.
dbattman 0
We now return to our scheduled program. "Getting on with your life after the 2000 election: A 12-step program for Democrats." Today we'll continue with step 2- putting out the candels and dismantling your bedside memorials.
You seem to miss the point that in the first case (Your people with the same name as a felon) was an ACCIDENT that happend and NOONE TRIED to make it happen. Where the case of my military ballot was a case where gore TRIED to eliminate them so he had a better chance to win.
In one an accident happend, in the other a canidate went out of his way to try and eliminate a group so he could win...
Its the INTENT between the two.
One was an accident, the other had intent.
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