More WMD's found

[billvon 3,111]

> Liberal pansies would love nothing better than for the U.S. to loose
>50,000 troops in Iraq.

I'm a liberal, and I would rather see zero troops lose their lives in Iraq. I have friends over there, which is why I take offense when our commander-in-chief says "bring it on." Those are my friends and fellow skydivers he is inviting terrorists to kill.

If anything, it seems like the right-wing 101st fighting keyboarders who are into guts-n-glory. Glorious war! It just keeps getting better! When men are men, and we get a chance to kick the world's ass and show them who the boss is! Drop those bombs! Glass F*cking parking lot! I have the feeling a lot of them buy into the Hollywood version of war, then are suprised when american fathers, brothers and sisters are killed in war. What they have to learn is that people die in wars; the time to decide you don't want to see US caskets coming back to our shores is before we declare war on some country, not after they are dead and on their way back in a box.

Want to support a war? You are sending american troops to their deaths. There's no way around that. If you want wars, fine - but it is the people pushing for war who are pro-dead-soldiers. That's what happens in wars.

[storm1977 0]

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We SOLD them to him!

I love that argument!!!!!! It is so simple minded :-)

It doesn't change the fact that the world told him to destroy the weapons 12 years ago and he refused to do it PERIOD

The world spoke he refused to listen.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[billvon 3,111]

>The world spoke he refused to listen.

We ignore the UN all the time, as does Israel. Would that justify an invasion? And why is it that so many right wingers claim the UN is a toothless, useless institution that we should ignore unless it's saying something we agree with?

>It doesn't change the fact that the world told him to destroy the weapons
>12 years ago and he refused to do it PERIOD

Please show me his statement where he refused to disarm in the months leading up to the Iraq war.

[storm1977 0]

Why, because it is toothless....

After going into Iraq the first time we demanded they give up all weapons programs and destroy what they had left of WMD.

THe USA left it up to the UN to make sure this happened.
It did not happen and then the UN the weak toothless bastards they are did about as little as they could to try to force IRAQ to get rid of its programs and weapons.

The USA made a mistake!!! We shouldn't have trusted the UN to manage Iraq after the first war!!

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[billvon 3,111]

>We shouldn't have trusted the UN to manage Iraq after the first war!!

Yet you condemn SH for not listening to the UN. Quite the double standard.

[storm1977 0]

Good try Bill.

I condemn him for not listening to the country that just kicked his ass and spared him in 91. And as part of the cease fire agreement said they would stop production of weapons and destroy the ones they had.

See.... They didn't listen to the USA. However, it was the UNs job to make sure Iraq held up there side of the contract. They failed to and the UN failed in their policing.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[happythoughts 0]

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However, it was the UNs job to make sure Iraq held up there side of the contract. They failed to and the UN failed in their policing.

To "fail", there must be a "try". During the 12 years, the French made huge money building palaces for SH. The French banks also laundered money and kept some for themselves. There wasn't a lot of support for ending the "sanctions" because the French were getting a huge benefit.

[storm1977 0]

Well, that is why i try not to buy french products :-)

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[TypicalFish 0]

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Well, that is why i try not to buy french products :-)

The problem is, you can't beat them for lingerie for your babe...

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[storm1977 0]

I know it has been a rough couple years!!! I have had to sew up the holes in the wifes old ones!!!!

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[crwtom 0]

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THe USA left it up to the UN to make sure this happened.

for the most part it did happen - far more WMD's were destroyed
during weapons inspections process 91-98 than in the first Gulf war.
The 98 bombings under Clinton (using knowledge about the locations due
to the previous inspections) finished off much else. There was practically
zero further eradication of WMD's during or after the 03 Iraq war.

Like it or not - in terms of numbers WMD of destroyed, the UN inspections
were far and away the most effective tool and the last Iraq war the least
effective. In fact there's no evidence to prevent the assertion that UN
sactioned or guided actions were essentially 100% effective in the destruction
of WMDs in Iraq.

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the UN the weak toothless bastards

the UN gave broad support in the first Gulf War and the Afghanistan
Invasion. Obviously they don't have a military of their own that compares
to that of the US - but in view of the facts it be sheer nonsense to say
they cut and run whenever there's a conflict.

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The USA made a mistake!!! We shouldn't have trusted the UN to manage Iraq after the first war!!

US policy was very much part of that management. And I have a hard
time seeing the unilateral management right now to be anymore effective.
The "difficulties" (to put it politely) have caused enough cold feet in DC
that they tucked their tails and went back to Brahimi.


Hating the UN is a hobby of the PNAC people. It is in their way of America
"boldly asserting her dominance and intersts in the world" (that should be
very close to an actual quote of theirs). Sinking the reputation of the
organisation (once created foremost on initiative of the US) rather than
improving it is a sport for them.

Their worst nightmare was that the negotiation in March 03 would actually
succeed - and panicked when they nearly did.

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[kallend 2,146]

The US has no idea what happened to 2.7 tonnes of plutonium, or even if it existed in the first place, due to inventory control problems, and the US was not bombed half way back to the stone age in 1991.

Every Iraqi military base was effectively destroyed in 1991, along with administrative buildings, etc. We all saw the pictures.

Do you SERIOUSLY believe that SH had complete information about where every artillery shell ended up when the US can't even account for its own plutonium?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sundevil777 102]

Many used to say, "No WMDs found in Iraq, the war is unjust!"

Now, many say, "Not enough WMDs found in Iraq, the war is unjust!" Or, "Some WMDs have been found, but no WMD PROGRAMS, the war is unjust!"

Not only did he have WMDs, he also had the ability to make a lot more again, and he did not live up to the '91 cease fire agreement.

Of course, many did not think it was a threat when the little Austrian did not live up to the arms limitations of the Versaille treaty. Neville Chamberlain saved Europe from war, proclaiming "peace in our time".

Neville should be your hero as a guy willing to risk it all for not being willing to fight.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[damion75 0]

They found 16 warheads. Dating back to the Iran/Iraq war - not the last Gulf war as Fox news claimed. I don't know where Fox get their info but I wouldn't trust them to tell me yesterday's weather! The warheads were scattered rather than stockpiled suggesting that they had been lost for a long time.

Oh yes, I almost forgot - they were empty too. They were only identified as chemical weapons by the design and some remaining trace elements.

Make of this what you will, just thought you might all be interested...

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Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Neville should be your hero as a guy willing to risk it all for not being willing to fight.

or the iraqi (dis)information minister

[PhillyKev 0]

Well, the Nazi card has been played. This thread is officially over. Yes, 1938 Nazi Germany vs. 2003 Iraq. I see the similarities

[bch7773 0]

a few shells containing old sarin and mustard gas constitute WMDs!?!??

boy i hope they don't find any more of those super-dangerous WMDs there... such as cluster bombs, which we use all the time.

or if they visit a store in iraq they might find it contains items used in the production of a WMD!!!!!! bleach and ammonia!!!! they form Chlorine gas when mixed!!! oh noooo another terrible WMD ready to be unleashed. [/sarcasm]

MB 3528, RB 1182

[mardigrasbob 0]

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a few shells containing old sarin and mustard gas constitute WMDs!?!??

Would you feel the same if 'a few shells ' exploded during the Superbowl?







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[kallend 2,146]

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Many used to say, "No WMDs found in Iraq, the war is unjust!"

Now, many say, "Not enough WMDs found in Iraq, the war is unjust!" Or, "Some WMDs have been found, but no WMD PROGRAMS, the war is unjust!"

Not only did he have WMDs, he also had the ability to make a lot more again, and he did not live up to the '91 cease fire agreement.

There is no evidence that this was anything other than obsolete stuff left over from three wars ago.

And there is no evidence that SH had the capability of making any more.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[LoudDan 0]

SSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you walk into a room, you see your friend bleeding to death from a cut in his stomach.

There are three other people in the room all holding knives, one of which has "traces" of blood on it. Who do you think is most likely to try and kill your ass?

Just waiting for the day when a stockpile is uncovered, then it'll be "Well, he DID have WMD, but he promised he wasn't going to use them, he was just a collector".

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[gkc1436 3]

stupid people....
reagan&bush 1 sold/gave the weapons to iraq to use against iran....

12 outdated shells are no reason to invade a country

[jimbarry 0]

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12 outdated shells are no reason to invade a country

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, correct. 12 shells are not enough. Rather the reason to invade Iraq was because SH had 12 years to comply with agreements and resolutions. The consequences of not abiding by them were clearly stated to include the possibility of military action. Now that we know the UN leadership was too corrupt and 'in-bed' with Iraq and oil-for-food kickbacks, it was clear they sold away their desire to follow thru.

Remember, it wasn't the Inspectors' job to search and find wmd, it was supposed to be the Inspectors' job to supervise or verify Iraq's destruction of them. Which SH intervened and smokescreened enough for us to declare "enough". "The inspectors need time to finish": please...

We're fighting a war against those who have declared the US to be their enemy (to deflect their own domestic problems). You can't just ignore it and it'll go away. If you love this country and want it to survive, you have to defend it against attack, yes, pre-emptively when necessary. You can armchair quarterback the specifics of actions all you want. This war against terror isn't going to be pretty, and no, it will not stand up to sharpshooting details, but the overall goal is right and just. In this one American's opinion, of course.

And while no one's proven that SH was behind 9/11, it's pretty clear he had connections with alqaeda. What, SH's regime had no connections with anti-western terror groups?

[sundevil777 102]

Well spoken Bruce, I mean Jim.

Hurumph, hurumph!.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[damion75 0]

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SSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you walk into a room, you see your friend bleeding to death from a cut in his stomach.

There are three other people in the room all holding knives, one of which has "traces" of blood on it. Who do you think is most likely to try and kill your ass?

I'm assuming that this is a 'smart' comment to imply that you believe this find proves he had WMD (after the UN resolution) and intended to use them... whereas if you READ what I wrote, then you will note that the warheads were

a. Empty
b. Scattered not stored

All of which kind of erodes the idea that this is proof of intent. If he was hiding WMD like this then where is the content?

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Just waiting for the day when a stockpile is uncovered, then it'll be "Well, he DID have WMD, but he promised he wasn't going to use them, he was just a collector".

Assuming rather a lot there - like that WMD ever will be uncovered in Iraq... after all, we have been searching for some time now... IF he had them then I reckon he shipped them to Syria a long time ago...

And in answer to your first question, I am a suspicious bastard and I would wouldn't trust anyone holding a knife that close to me. Blood or no blood. Sorry.

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from jimbarry

it's pretty clear he had connections with alqaeda

Says who? prove it. Funnily enough, lots of people assume this, but no-one has ever proven it. Given the ideological differences between SH and AQ (SH was a not particularly religious, sectarian leader and AQ is a strongly Islamic extremist organisation) it actually seems unlikely...

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Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[LoudDan 0]

It's a big desert, hell they found an entire mig flight buried in the sand.

So where in Syria do you reckon he sent these weapons? If this is the case, this would be exporting someting he was not supposed to have in the first place, another violation, and if SH was distributing WMD in this manner, I'd say an ass kicking is justified.

Plus there was the whole gassing his own countrymen with mustard gas (WMD), I mean if he'd do it to his own people do you honestly think he would have stopped and thought before using gas on another country?

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!