Political Lying

[lawrocket 3]

I see this stuff about "GWB lied" and "Bill Clinton lied" and "which is worse." "Everybody does it."

What's right is right if nobody does it. What's wrong is wrong if everybody does it.

I guess I just don't like lies. I hate them, and I don't do it.

Are there times when it is right to lie? Are there times when it would be good for a President or Cabinetmember or Congressman or school board member to lie? I'm trying to think of situations where telling outright lies is good. But I'm drawing a blank.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[aprilcat 0]

I think if the Government told the truth ALL the time we'd be a nation of suicides.

I don't like lying either, but I understand it is best to withhold information at times, even when asked directly.

I'm not really sure how the 5th amendment works out, because if I asked a direction question and someone told me 'I refuse to answer on grounds it may incriminate me' I'd just take it as 'you DID it'.

Hmmmmm...are you going to tell your baby about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and all that? What is the answer to "does this dress make me look fat?" I guess 'lies' are subjective.~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[aprilcat 0]

WHOOPS....

Just noticed the title said POLITICAL LYING. Again...thats subjective. There are some little ones used to keep peace then there are those WHOPPERS (I did not have sexual relations with that woman) ~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[gmanpilot 0]

Quote

Are there times when it is right to lie?

Yes, we as a government lie every day, and it is (sometimes) the right thing to do. Example: About ten years ago, I was employed by one of the three lettered agencies, and was documenting a murder solicitation by this dude who wanted to have his wife killed. During one of the meetings he asked me on video if I was a cop. I said "Fuck no, I'm not a cop, are you?" I lied, and it was the right thing to do. Now extrapolate that and place it in a global, foreign policy, counterterrorism environment. Given the stakes of 9/11 or some sort of bioterror event, is it ok to lie?

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Politicians don't lie, they are economical with the truth.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Fast 0]

I am willing to give the government some room for bending the truth when it comes to overal public information.

There are lots of things that the general people of america don't need to know about, don't need to hear the truth about, and really don't care about. There is some truth in the common phrase: "Ignorance is bliss"

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[billvon 3,131]

>There are lots of things that the general people of america don't need to
>know about, don't need to hear the truth about, and really don't care about.

Any democracy that has that sentiment as a central theme will fail miserably, and be ripe for gradual takeover by an autocrat. The instant you think that "we should just leave the hard decisions to the king, he knows best" you have given up a government ruled by the people in exchange for a people under the rule of a government.

[Fast 0]

Quote

>There are lots of things that the general people of america don't need to
>know about, don't need to hear the truth about, and really don't care about.

Any democracy that has that sentiment as a central theme will fail miserably, and be ripe for gradual takeover by an autocrat. The instant you think that "we should just leave the hard decisions to the king, he knows best" you have given up a government ruled by the people in exchange for a people under the rule of a government.

I agree with that as well. I guess I just don't trust in most people to remain level headed about things and be rational if the situation/story/etc is not presented in an appropriate manner. I think that it is something (truth in government) we should strive for. It seems clear to me that we ought to know everthing that is going on, but it should come in moderation not in a lump sum. Which is where I think the government has a little bit of room to bend things comes into play. If every little crisis, problem, whatever was front page every day without some spin on it I think people would have a hard time digesting all of it or they would just ignore it.

It is most certainly the case that the truth needs to come forward in a timely fashion in a manner that doesn't cause public hysteria, etc. I don't think that we should be giving up any of our decision making power in the bigger sense. I think on specific issues we have to leave the decision to the elected officials and take recourse regarding it as soon as that option becomes available. There has to be accountability for that actions that are taken by members of the government because there is no way that the public as a whole can make every decision.


Either way it comes down to my conclusion that some bending of the truth is acceptable as long as the truth prevails in a reasonable timeframe. We have to know the underlying truths so that we are able to make educated decisions regarding voting and electing our governmental representatives.



Re the original post:

I don't know if I can give specific examples of when it is ok for government to lie to the people but I know that there are many that are used in personal situations. They come up when discussing Kant.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[kallend 2,174]

How do you feel about sting operations to catch criminals? Or disinformation during wartime to deceive the enemy?

Politicians should, however, be truthful. Unfortunately I can't think of many that fill the bill since Sen. Paul Simon retired.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

>There are lots of things that the general people of america don't need to
>know about, don't need to hear the truth about, and really don't care about.

Any democracy that has that sentiment as a central theme will fail miserably, and be ripe for gradual takeover by an autocrat. The instant you think that "we should just leave the hard decisions to the king, he knows best" you have given up a government ruled by the people in exchange for a people under the rule of a government.

Damnit Bill, you're making me agree with you again.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"There are lots of things that the general people of america don't need to know about, don't need to hear the truth about, and really don't care about. There is some truth in the common phrase: "Ignorance is bliss" "


What a risible notion.

Billvon said it, Kennedy agrees with it, and I support it.
Any government should be open and honest about its actions, moreover it should be held accountable for its actions and policies.
Futhermore it is not only our right, it is our responsibility to challenge any or all policies that we, as free thinking individuals, disagree with.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Author: Martin Luther King, Jr. "

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Fast 0]

After thinking about it I will admit to being hasty about what I said, though I think it is true that a good majority of the people don't really care about a lot of things and don't want to hear about them either. There are some of us who do (and I think people should ) have an inerest in whats going on in the world.

Although I would percieve that a good portion of the population would have a hard time caring about and understanding a lot of the current issues I don't think that excusses the rest of us. Taking an active interest in the truth of what happens every day is good. I would go so far as to wager that we are already in a pseudo autocratic society. Most people are ignorant of politics, why else would we have to have advertising to get people to vote. Most people are happy to let government run its own course and not care about what decisions are really being made. They may raise concern in the aftermath of an election or when a major event occurs but they are still acting benign when it comes to thier part in determing the aim of the government.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka