Bill Clinton

[Skyrad 0]

[Quote]I am ashamed the US ever elected a draft dogging, cheating, liar to the White House.***


What, Bush?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[PhillyKev 0]

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IMO Clinton has been the best thing to happen to the Republican Party in the last 100 years.

Think about it. He was instumental in the Republicans being voted in as the majority in the Senate and the House

And GWB seems to be returning the favor to the democrats.

[PhillyKev 0]

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And you wonder why some religious freak thinks we are a corrupt nation?

No, I've never wondered why some religious freak would think that. You seem to share his opinion, I don't.

[lawrocket 3]

Clinton is a good speaker (Reagan was a GREAT speaker). Clinton is one of thos eguys that I'm sure I could be great friends with. Still, I wouldn't vote for any of my best friends to be president, since I disagree with them.

One reason? Clinton couldn't control himself.

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In an interview to be broadcast Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes," Clinton called the Lewinsky affair "a terrible moral error."

"I did something for the worst possible reason. Just because I could," he said in the interview. "I think that's just about the most morally indefensible reason anybody could have for doing anything."

Clinton also said of the impeachment process: "The whole battle was a badge of honor. I don't see it as a stain, because it was illegitimate."

Here we have a President who did something because he "could." In the Oval Office. What else did he do because he "could" in the Oval Office? The most powerful man in the world who did things because he "could?" Sweet Jesus. Read Machiavelli's "Prince."

Also, I don't think the investigation was illegitimate. Maybe because I keep politics out of this, I choose to depise him because of his patently illegal actions with Ms. Lewinski. Sorry, I tend to have a problem with sexual harrassers sexually harrassing low-level interns.

If it were General Powell getting a bj from Private Fluffy, it would violate the law and career would be done.

If it were corporate CEO getting a bj from a copy clerk, Clinton's Justice Department would be all over him on the basis of the tougher harassment regulations championed by Mr. Clinton.

Starr fucked up the same way those Southwestern Law School graduates fucked up the OJ trial. They put the emphasis on the wrong things.

OJ, a childhood hero, lost my respect. Clinton also lost it. Now he wears it as a badge of honor.

What a fucking prick.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[freeflybella 0]

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Just wondering, what was "refreshing" about it?

What were you watching?

I was referring to CSpan2 Book TV on Sunday where he spoke about his upcoming book.

He was an intelligent and articulate speaker.

He also gave an interesting perspective on the changing politics (rep and dem) since the sixties.

It was refreshing again to hear a former/president speak and not giggle or cringe.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Gravitymaster 0]

And lets not forget Kathline Willy and Juanita Broderick.

[Ron 10]

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I am ashamed the US ever elected a draft dogging, cheating, liar to the White House.
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What, Bush?

Bush served...Maybe not in the way YOU wanted him to...But he did serve..Clinton on the other hand dogged the draft.

How did Bush cheat?

Oh and you have yet to prove bush has lied...

You only speak typical leftish bullshit.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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And you wonder why some religious freak thinks we are a corrupt nation?

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No, I've never wondered why some religious freak would think that. You seem to share his opinion, I don't.

Well I don't share his opinion...I however don't understand how you could be proud of having Clinton as a President.

Or how you think its OK he was not punished...After all as you guys say it was only a BJ.

Lets face it we are not going to agree...You seem to think its OK to have a self serving, morally corrupt known liar as a President....I don't.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[benny 0]

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Lets face it we are not going to agree...You seem to think its OK to have a self serving, morally corrupt known liar as a President....I don't.

no, we don't think it's ok, we just think George Bush is a self-serving, morally corrupt liar too.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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IMO Clinton has been the best thing to happen to the Republican Party in the last 100 years.

Think about it. He was instumental in the Republicans being voted in as the majority in the Senate and the House

And GWB seems to be returning the favor to the democrats.

Apparently, you are wrong.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm

[happythoughts 0]

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Just wondering, what was "refreshing" about it?

What were you watching?

I was referring to CSpan2 Book TV on Sunday where he spoke about his upcoming book.

He was an intelligent and articulate speaker.

He also gave an interesting perspective on the changing politics (rep and dem) since the sixties.

It was refreshing again to hear a former/president speak and not giggle or cringe.

I only caught part of the that. There was a round table discussion on two of the news-talk shows with video excerpts of his interview with Mike Wallace and his book-promotion speech.

I believe he is intelligent and articulate also, but he is so far beyond credulous that anything he says is immediately ignorable.

The rules of politics:
Admit to what is known.
Promise to aid in any investigation.
Stall the investigation behind the scenes.
Assign blame for the unproven items to others.

He admitted to what was known about some of his sexual misconducts.
Blamed the White Water investigation on politics.

Regardless of his speaking skills, it was politics at his finest. He has such little credibility that his speeches should be a voiceover in a Roadrunner cartoon.

[happythoughts 0]

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Lets face it we are not going to agree...You seem to think its OK to have a self serving, morally corrupt known liar as a President....I don't.

no, we don't think it's ok, we just think George Bush is a self-serving, morally corrupt liar too.

Using your logic, if you disapprove of Bush, why do you love Clinton so much?

[Ron 10]

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no, we don't think it's ok, we just think George Bush is a self-serving, morally corrupt liar too.

Clinton was proven to be a liar by a court of law...

What evidence ya got against Bush?

You ever even voted before Benny?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[benny 0]

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Lets face it we are not going to agree...You seem to think its OK to have a self serving, morally corrupt known liar as a President....I don't.

no, we don't think it's ok, we just think George Bush is a self-serving, morally corrupt liar too.

Using your logic, if you disapprove of Bush, why do you love Clinton so much?

The only part of the above statement that I believe about Clinton is the lying thing. But everybody lies, even presidents. As far as being self-serving, I find this applies much more to Bush than Clinton ever. Morally corrupt, well, the cheating thing is bad and all but that's between him, his wife, and whatever god they may ascribe to. Lots of people, even presidents, preachers and congressman cheat.

Clinton, to me anyway, seemed to genuinely care about the people in this country. Bush on the other, just really doesn't seem to give a flying fuck. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[benny 0]

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no, we don't think it's ok, we just think George Bush is a self-serving, morally corrupt liar too.

Clinton was proven to be a liar by a court of law...

What evidence ya got against Bush?

You ever even voted before Benny?

Ron, we've discussed that before, Clinton was acquitted. Found not guilty, read, not guilty. But I digress, I even admit he's a liar, I just ask you to come to grips with reality and realize that everybody lies (no, not under oath necessarily). And that while Georgie has had an official hearing to determine whether he's a liar, odds are, he probably is.

The thing about evidence against Bush, or Rumsfeld, or any of those guys is that they just never answer any question. Any time they are asked about something they might be responsible for it's "well I'm not sure I can answer that right now" or "we're working on it". Oh, that is unless they've got grandiose plans to invade a nation in which case it's "they're trying to buy Uranium" or "he's in cahoots with al kayda" (intentional misspelling as I'm sure this is how Bush would write it).

Yep, I've voted, couple of times. Even voted for a republican once (for Senate)

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[lawrocket 3]

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And lets not forget Kathline Willy and Juanita Broderick.

Well, I don't forget those, but I don't bring them up. There really was not enough evidence to say, "He did it." Much like Paula Jones, much of that WAS driven by politics.

I prefer to stick to the proven and admitted. IT honestly helps with credibility when your point cannot be argued. And you'll notice, nobody's said anythign to rebut my point, because points like that, based in proven fact, cannot be rebutted.

Edited to add: And honestly, I've been pm'd by many in the past about my view of Clinton's bj, and they have all been respectful and appreciative of my non-slanted view. Clinton fans are generally reasonable when hit with reasonable arguments. Hopefully, Clinton's detractors will bide by reason, as well.

Let's stick to the solid stuff we can hit them with.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[happythoughts 0]

The most amazing part of this thread is this:
Clinton admitted to perjury, sexual harrassment, etc.
Regardless of his sexual improprieties, he has admitted to offences that would put the rest of us in jail.

Yet, his supporters keep ignoring those items and talk of some kind of "boys will be boys" harmlessness. Like everyone is just talking about churchy morality or something.

(Btw, the "someone is doing it too" argument didn't work with my mom when I was 8 yo.)

His detractors keep pointing out that no one is discussing his BJ issues. He admitted perjury.

Personally, I think his policies sucked, I don't carry if he got his dwizzle twizzled during business hours.

This thread is becoming more schizo by the minute.

[happythoughts 0]

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If it were corporate CEO getting a bj from a copy clerk, Clinton's Justice Department would be all over him on the basis of the tougher harassment regulations championed by Mr. Clinton.

Remember Clarence Thomas?

The NOW was all over that because it was politically expedient. When Clinton was repeatedly accused of sexual misconduct, they were amazing silent.

Thomas told a few dirty jokes, Clinton was doing the deed. Whipping it out in front of Paula Jones, groping Kathleen Wiley, getting some from ML.

Where was the NOW? I lost all respect for them during those years. They are supposed to protect all women, not just when it promotes their agenda. "We have met the enemy and he is us."

[freeflybella 0]

I find it interesting that some expect our political leaders to subscribe to 'morally' higher standard. He's a policy maker. A decision maker. Not our parent or our priest. Or our God.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[benny 0]

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I find it interesting that some expect our political leaders to subscribe to 'morally' higher standard. He's a policy maker. A decision maker. Not our parent or our priest. Or our God.

Exactly, the reason I like Clinton as much as I do has to do with his policies more than anything. The same applies to my analysis of Bush. I don't give a crap if he did or did not snort a lot of coke. I don't care if Laura is the only woman he's ever laid and he only does it missionary. All of this is irrelevant. What I dislike most about Bush and what I think speaks most clearly about his character are his reckless fiscal, foreign policy and domestic agendas which are driving the deficit skyhigh, causing former allies away from us and glossing over some of the nation's most critical problems on the homefront.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[happythoughts 0]

How about lying under oath? Is that a little moral slip?

What great Clinton policies do you refer to?
Foreign policy? What about Somalia?
What about his failure to follow up on the '93 WTC bombing?

Think of it. If Clinton had pursued OBL back then.
1. The WTC would still be standing.
2. The US would never have gone to Afghanistan.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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And lets not forget Kathline Willy and Juanita Broderick.

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Well, I don't forget those, but I don't bring them up. There really was not enough evidence to say, "He did it." Much like Paula Jones, much of that WAS driven by politics.

I disagree that Willy and Broderick were politically driven. Neither woman had anything to gain nor did they seem to have a political agenda. Remember, Broderick actually had worked to help get Clinton elected to Governor and Willy worked at the WH and was a Clinton supporter. I listened to both of them tell their story and found them to be credible. If anything, I would say Paula Jones had a political agenda but not Willy and Broderick.

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I prefer to stick to the proven and admitted. IT honestly helps with credibility when your point cannot be argued. And you'll notice, nobody's said anythign to rebut my point, because points like that, based in proven fact, cannot be rebutted.

Agreed.

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[lawrocket 3]

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I find it interesting that some expect our political leaders to subscribe to 'morally' higher standard. He's a policy maker. A decision maker. Not our parent or our priest. Or our God.

A policy maker - his policy was to punish severely sexual harassers. His DOJ implemented new guidelines for it. "Favorable treatment" for sexual favors was one of them. What other interns (like male interns) got the same access to the Oval Office as Lewinsky? He did it because he could. He's the most powerful man in the country, and we peasants better not try what he did. See my problem with that?

"A decision maker." Yeah, his decision making process? We know of one occasion where the decision process was because he "could." Then he responds that it is not morally defensible. He knows it. Do we want a guy with a finger on the button making decisions because he "could?"

Oh, sure, he only used that decision making process once. And I've got a bridge to sell you in Nairobi.

Sweet Jesus, people. This isn't just a freaking "morals" argument. This directly calls into question decisionmaking. Policy making. If he can't control himself enough to keep his dick dry around an intern, how the hell do you expect him to make proper and informed decisions and policies if he doesn't feel like time for decision.

"Why'd you send cruise missiles into the Sudan, Mr. President?"
"Because I could."

"Why did you screw up the entire air pattern so you could get a haircut on the tarmac at LAX?"
"Because I could."

"Why did you have those FBI files in your office, Mr. President?"
"Because I could."

My God, people! THIS is leadership and a great POTUS? I expect more from my teenage brother. My children won't get away with that crap. But you'll allow the President to do it and applaud?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[tunaplanet 0]

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Clinton lied about a blow job.

Yes, but you cleverly left out the most important fact about that...He lied under oath. Big difference.

If Clinton would have came right out and said, "Yeah, it was wrong but I received oral sex from an intern and cheated on my wife and family. It was wrong and I am extremely sorry for this," the entire country, me included, would have been fine with it. Afterall, this is a forgiving country. The fact that he lied repeatedly under oath about it is what got him in deep trouble.

If a man will lie about something as insignificant as oral sex, makes you think what other things he lied about.

Forty-two

[benny 0]

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If a man will lie about something as insignificant as oral sex, makes you think what other things he lied about.

I think we all know that most men will lie about something as insignificant as oral sex...

My favorite, "yeah baby, I promise I'll tell you when I'm gonna come" comes to mind. How many married men do you know who will admit to adultery the first time they are questioned? I think most would take a course of denial until that route was completely exhausted. Clinton is guilty of being a horny, dirty old man who didn't want his wife to know.

Never go to a DZ strip show.