CanuckInUSA 0 #26 June 16, 2004 QuoteIts the involvement of the parents that make a larger difference. Ding ... ding ... ding ... we have a winner!!! Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #27 June 16, 2004 Kris, those statistics seem to be right out of something from the CTA. Until the Calfornia system does away with Average Daily Attendance, the schools here will suck. As to administrators being credentialed, and teachers being credentialed, I see it as having little value. That I can take my Master's degree and teach college without a credential, but can't teach elementary school, seems silly to me. My kids teacher has a MS degree in education and is credentialed, but mostly she's a wise and loving woman with children in the same class as mine. "Wall-wash" is important to young people who have education but not experience. It validates them against people with less wall wash, but decades of real world success. As to what should happen in the public school classroom, it just doesn't, except in the most exclusive school districts. When funding runs out for kids with behavior problems, they get thrown in with the rest. Teachers are pressured to stop sending evil johnny to the principle, because there simply isn't anything the principle can do with him. And evil johnnie's parents think it's the schools job to raise him. It's costing a fortune, but I have decided to forego letting my daughters participate in this particular social experiment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #28 June 16, 2004 Quote The Catholic School where I grew up was pretty well known locally for having higher pregnancy rates, higher arrests of their students for DUI's and lower test scores then the public schools around them. That goes back to my littebug point. If those behaviors were accepted, they were committed. Yeah, if the parents tolerate that stuff, it will happen. Young people rise to their expectations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #29 June 16, 2004 QuoteOn average, nicer articulate people do better than rude concieted ones. Gareth Holder being the obvious exception. If I was conceited, I wouldn't be always hooking you up with free stuff now would I ? I'll go along with the rude though. Although I like to look at it as not suffering fools glady. If you're an idiot, I find it hard not to fulfill my sacred duty and let you know. It's the only way you'll learn and improve, trust me. You may be surprised to know that I was educted privately at a Catholic preparatory school, before going to private college, and then University. The experience of benign indoctrination at the former was what started me on my long road to lifelong atheism and scepticism. You don't always get the result you pay for there you see. As far as sending kids to religious schools. They're your kids, go for it. Just don't be spending any of my tax money to fund any part of it. If the kids are bright enough, they'll work out which bits are bullshit and make good use of the rest. If they come out of the system unavle to fit into a secular society, then they'll just have to join the preisthood, or move to Idaho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #30 June 16, 2004 QuoteQuote On average, nicer articulate people do better than rude concieted ones. Gareth Holder being the obvious exception. Gareth's very articulate, you just misunderstand him. Not his fault John, He's American. I do keep the long words to a minimum when talking to JP, but sometimes I just have to get out my shiny car keys and shake them for him. Bless him, Sometimes I swear he understands every word I say to him. I feel a bit like Jane Goodall some days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #31 June 16, 2004 QuoteThe experience of benign indoctrination at the former was what started me on my long road to lifelong atheism and scepticism. Yeah, that's what my Mom said, that for all that money the freaking priests kept us questioning everything, including faith, and it made us all agnostics. For a while, anyhow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #32 June 16, 2004 QuoteI feel a bit like Jane Goodall some days. Those are the days you let me pick the ticks out of your back hair, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #33 June 16, 2004 the statistics I listed were from my own research, for a research project for my master's degree. At the time, they were verified by district/diocese administrators, teachers, and principals from their educational organization. The reason you don't need a credential to teach college is that you're dealing with adults. Discipline isn't an issue, and neither is child development. Teacher education isn't about WHAT to teach. It's about HOW to teach, how to deal with children at different stages of development, classroom management, etc. It's about how to teach children how to learn. Adults in college already know how to learn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #34 June 16, 2004 QuoteQuote The Catholic School where I grew up was pretty well known locally for having higher pregnancy rates, higher arrests of their students for DUI's and lower test scores then the public schools around them. That goes back to my littebug point. If those behaviors were accepted, they were committed. Yeah, if the parents tolerate that stuff, it will happen. Young people rise to their expectations. LOL! The common nickname for Rosary High in Orange County is "The Whorehouse on the Hill". During my one year there, I could see that the reputation was well deserved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #35 June 16, 2004 Quote Those are the days you let me pick the ticks out of your back hair, right? *** Craichead doesn't call me her 'HubbyMonkey' for nothing. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #36 June 16, 2004 QuoteLOL! The common nickname for Rosary High in Orange County is "The Whorehouse on the Hill". During my one year there, I could see that the reputation was well deserved. So, your anecdotal experience was negative. It's hard to keep that bias out of the research, no? I split my time between public and private schools growing up as my parents did or didn't have the money for it. On balance I did much better in parochial school. Having been in both systems I choose the parochial one for my kids. I'm biased too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #37 June 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote The Catholic School where I grew up was pretty well known locally for having higher pregnancy rates, higher arrests of their students for DUI's and lower test scores then the public schools around them. That goes back to my littebug point. If those behaviors were accepted, they were committed. Yeah, if the parents tolerate that stuff, it will happen. Young people rise to their expectations. LOL! The common nickname for Rosary High in Orange County is "The Whorehouse on the Hill". During my one year there, I could see that the reputation was well deserved. I'd like to take this moment to thank the catholic church for its repressive, controlling school system, they did a fine job of creating an enviroment that greatly enhanced my educational experiences while attending the public school down the street. the 'fashion show' and the cliches it creates takes place with or without uniforms, its just more subtle. IME with a variety of schools religious, secular, I learned far more from the DOD schools in Europe, the social controls in catholic school created more strife than learning and the 'pure' public schools standard of teaching was far to low to maintain the interest of advanced students...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #38 June 16, 2004 hehe. I split my time too. I had a great experience with some of the kids at my elementary, but the education itself wasn't as good. K-6 parochial (two different schools in two different diocese) 7-8 public 9- parochial 10-12- public university - private catholic My experience at Rosary was definitely not all negative. They have a wonderful theatre program that gave me the drama bug. They have several amazing teachers. I'll never forget my history teacher. She made history come alive and made me love the subject to this day. A phys-ed teacher who made me feel like I could actually excel in a sport other than karate. course, I had a few nightmare teachers too. A math teacher who called me an idiot to my face in front of the class (of couse I couldn't do a square root! I'd never been taught!) Overall, however, the quality of education simply wasn't as high. My mother taught at a parochial school for almost 20 years. She just made the switch to public. She, like me, feels that the public schools in our area are far superior than the parochial. She actually APOLOGIZED to me for sending me to a parochial school, stating that I'd have gotten a better all-around education in our public school system. She said she was sorry, that she thought I'd get a better education at the private school, but, now having experienced teaching at a public school, she could see that her assumptions had been false. and no, it wasn't hard to keep any kind of bias out of my research. I was dealing with quantitative research, not qualitative, which is far more objective, and my research was closely monitored by a teacher and an advisor, as well as the dean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #39 June 16, 2004 QuoteMy mother taught at a parochial school for almost 20 years. She just made the switch to public. She, like me, feels that the public schools in our area are far superior than the parochial. She actually APOLOGIZED to me for sending me to a parochial school, stating that I'd have gotten a better all-around education in our public school system. She said she was sorry, that she thought I'd get a better education at the private school, but, now having experienced teaching at a public school, she could see that her assumptions had been false. Such interactions with our parents are extremely formative. It's hard to love our parents (or even to hate them) and have statements of such gravity not profoundly affect our worldview. As we've exchanged here and in PM's I disagree with your premise. I think most of it's anecdotal, and perhaps Orange County has a really screwed up diocese. That research does not extend to California, the nation, or the world. Having twins, I supposed I could do a double-blind study, but having lived a while, I know what's best for my kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,131 #40 June 16, 2004 Quote Adults in college already know how to learn. Well, I could write a long essay about that. Suffice to say, it is not universally true.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #41 June 16, 2004 The interaction with my mom was this last. I had already done my research on private vs. public schools and written my analysis the year or so before. It was just that my mom, after disagreeing strongly with my findings, went and taught at a public school (her position was being cut at the parochial one) and discovered that she agreed with my findings. It was more that my findings and experiences affected her worldview in this case than the other way around. If I, and my aunt and uncle, hadn't encouraged her to give public education a try, she probably would've retired. Her public school is now talking about making her head of the science department, since they think she's such a great teacher and she has a master's in science education from USC. She says that the public school is a "much better place to teach and to learn." My mom and my aunt (PhD in education and university professor at a Catholic university) and uncle (also PhD in education and DEAN at a catholic university) used to go round and round over the catholic education system that every one of them went through. My aunt and uncle (brother and sister) had studied and analyzed catholic schools. My uncle did his doctoral dissertation on them. My mom only had her own experiences and a "gut feeling". My mom insisted catholic schools were superior. My aunt and uncle disagreed strongly. Both my aunt and uncle agree that Catholic Universities provide a very good education. They do not, however, think the same of catholic elementary schools. They've done extensive research on the matter in the course of their degrees and their current positions. There may be areas where the catholic school system is superior. (East LA immediately comes to mind, not because of the quality of education available, but because of social factors). However, overall, I believe, through my own analysis, and through reading the analysis of others, and from speaking extensively with many university professors, that for the most part, public schools can offer superior opportunities to children. Religious education can take place at home, at church, and through youth groups. My family is very catholic, and my cousins (mother is the aunt mentioned above), although they attend public school, are very well versed in Catholic doctrine, and have made first communion, and will be confirmed in high school, if that is their wish. My cousins are most definitely educated as catholics. they simply do not attend catholic school. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #42 June 16, 2004 not universally, of course. However, it is the justification given for not requiring college professors to take classes in how to teach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fallman 0 #43 June 17, 2004 First off, I do not have any formal education on the subject of private/public/parochial schools. The following are just my experiences. I went to private parochial schools throughout my education until i went to college. I am now at a public university and don't think i could go back to a religious setting, it just didn't fit me. That's not to say it's wrong for everyone. Schools really have to be judged at your local level. The only reason i was put in a parochial school was that it was the only way for me to get an education with adequated resources. The increased tuition provides much more disposable income for a school. The public schools in my area recently had to choose one period to 'eliminate' because they can't afford to have seven periods anymore. There are obvious problems with the public schools in my area including violence, horrible attendance, and the students test low(poor overall education). If a college sees an applicant with the same gpa from my private school and the local public school who do u think they will accept? Certainly not the kid from the high school well known for a poor quality of education. Another thing that could be viewed as good or bad is the increased level of competition at private schools. Children are encouraged to get better grades to the point of a stress overload. For someone already in a difficult time in their life(high school students), should the main focus in their life really be their school curriculum. Some kids spent so much time studying that they may have permanently socially handicapped themselves. Children need free time to grow and learn through doing the stupid childish things we all did/do. In my area, the only way to get a top quality education was to go the catholic school route. However, the theory that religion provides a moral backbone of some sort didn't hold water there. Drug usage was high, people were just as mean to each other if not crueler than at a public school, i have heard accounts of people buying grades as well as their way out of trouble. The latter could be simply applied to schools in wealthy areas. The whole experience has cast a negative light on religion for me. Everything at private schools seems to be money related and you have to be careful with what message that sends to youngsters. I learned at a very young age that with enough money I could get away with anything. Can't make grades, no problem, just have ur parents make a sizable donation. No matter where u send ur kids, as was pointed out above parental attention is a HUGE factor. Many of my friends went to a public school. How my friends viewed education was usually nearly identical to how their parents viewed it. I knew i was going to college before i finished 5th grade because my parents told me it was simply part of the process. It wasn't if i was going to go to college but what college i would attend. woa....that was cool.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #44 June 17, 2004 QuoteQuote Adults in college already know how to learn. Well, I could write a long essay about that. Suffice to say, it is not universally true. Absolutely. Your mind is clearly closed to the advantages of conservative political orientation, and you are a Professor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crwmike 0 #45 June 17, 2004 "Not his fault John, He's American." Now that's a bit unfair. I blame it on the nuns. Aside from a pressing need for neatness, order and structure, I'n pretty sure they drilled him on the rote memory stuff. Try him on multiplication tables ;) "Bless him, Sometimes I swear he understands every word I say to him." He's such a sweet boy. "I feel a bit like Jane Goodall some days." You look a bit like Jane ...in her later years. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crwmike 0 #46 June 17, 2004 QuoteQuote The Catholic School where I grew up was pretty well known locally for having higher pregnancy rates, higher arrests of their students for DUI's and lower test scores then the public schools around them. That goes back to my littebug point. If those behaviors were accepted, they were committed. Yeah, if the parents tolerate that stuff, it will happen. Young people rise to their expectations. No disrespect intended, but ;) is it possible that your experiences have led you to desire life to be neat, structured and orderly and you equate that with academic superiority? For example, what kind of work do you do? I'd give small odds that it was something with a clearly understood hierarchial structure. (military?) Do I have a problem viewing the catholic church as fostering creative, open learning environments ...well, yes, I do. Peace, Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites misskriss 0 #47 June 17, 2004 My girls went to Catholic school for three years and loved it. I loved it. Everyone knew each other and I never had such incredible communication with teachers. It was truely one big family. When we moved I will never forget how the entire school (which wasn't very big..one class per grade k-8) stood outside in the parking lot to say goodbye in unison to my girls. When they switched back to public school after we moved they could not believe the way the kids acted. The noise, the attitudes, etc. I believe that Catholic School gave my children a solid foundation on which to build on...either the teachings or fear of Sister Patricia.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #48 June 17, 2004 They are useful. Someone has to work at McDonalds.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #49 June 17, 2004 QuotePublic schools: 100% Credentialed Parochial schools: 60% Credentialed Proves nothing. Neither do any of the other statistics you've posted. Why not focus on what matters - ACT/SAT test scores, college admissions, etc . . . Quoteinteresting, isn't it? Not particularly. Your argument reminds of the non-USPA DZs aren't as safe as USPA DZs debate. I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in your assumptions, rather that the information you presented does nothing to prove your case. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #50 June 17, 2004 the catholic schools refused to provide me with these statistics, saying they do not track elementary students, only high school Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Deuce 1 #36 June 16, 2004 QuoteLOL! The common nickname for Rosary High in Orange County is "The Whorehouse on the Hill". During my one year there, I could see that the reputation was well deserved. So, your anecdotal experience was negative. It's hard to keep that bias out of the research, no? I split my time between public and private schools growing up as my parents did or didn't have the money for it. On balance I did much better in parochial school. Having been in both systems I choose the parochial one for my kids. I'm biased too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #37 June 16, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote The Catholic School where I grew up was pretty well known locally for having higher pregnancy rates, higher arrests of their students for DUI's and lower test scores then the public schools around them. That goes back to my littebug point. If those behaviors were accepted, they were committed. Yeah, if the parents tolerate that stuff, it will happen. Young people rise to their expectations. LOL! The common nickname for Rosary High in Orange County is "The Whorehouse on the Hill". During my one year there, I could see that the reputation was well deserved. I'd like to take this moment to thank the catholic church for its repressive, controlling school system, they did a fine job of creating an enviroment that greatly enhanced my educational experiences while attending the public school down the street. the 'fashion show' and the cliches it creates takes place with or without uniforms, its just more subtle. IME with a variety of schools religious, secular, I learned far more from the DOD schools in Europe, the social controls in catholic school created more strife than learning and the 'pure' public schools standard of teaching was far to low to maintain the interest of advanced students...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #38 June 16, 2004 hehe. I split my time too. I had a great experience with some of the kids at my elementary, but the education itself wasn't as good. K-6 parochial (two different schools in two different diocese) 7-8 public 9- parochial 10-12- public university - private catholic My experience at Rosary was definitely not all negative. They have a wonderful theatre program that gave me the drama bug. They have several amazing teachers. I'll never forget my history teacher. She made history come alive and made me love the subject to this day. A phys-ed teacher who made me feel like I could actually excel in a sport other than karate. course, I had a few nightmare teachers too. A math teacher who called me an idiot to my face in front of the class (of couse I couldn't do a square root! I'd never been taught!) Overall, however, the quality of education simply wasn't as high. My mother taught at a parochial school for almost 20 years. She just made the switch to public. She, like me, feels that the public schools in our area are far superior than the parochial. She actually APOLOGIZED to me for sending me to a parochial school, stating that I'd have gotten a better all-around education in our public school system. She said she was sorry, that she thought I'd get a better education at the private school, but, now having experienced teaching at a public school, she could see that her assumptions had been false. and no, it wasn't hard to keep any kind of bias out of my research. I was dealing with quantitative research, not qualitative, which is far more objective, and my research was closely monitored by a teacher and an advisor, as well as the dean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #39 June 16, 2004 QuoteMy mother taught at a parochial school for almost 20 years. She just made the switch to public. She, like me, feels that the public schools in our area are far superior than the parochial. She actually APOLOGIZED to me for sending me to a parochial school, stating that I'd have gotten a better all-around education in our public school system. She said she was sorry, that she thought I'd get a better education at the private school, but, now having experienced teaching at a public school, she could see that her assumptions had been false. Such interactions with our parents are extremely formative. It's hard to love our parents (or even to hate them) and have statements of such gravity not profoundly affect our worldview. As we've exchanged here and in PM's I disagree with your premise. I think most of it's anecdotal, and perhaps Orange County has a really screwed up diocese. That research does not extend to California, the nation, or the world. Having twins, I supposed I could do a double-blind study, but having lived a while, I know what's best for my kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #40 June 16, 2004 Quote Adults in college already know how to learn. Well, I could write a long essay about that. Suffice to say, it is not universally true.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #41 June 16, 2004 The interaction with my mom was this last. I had already done my research on private vs. public schools and written my analysis the year or so before. It was just that my mom, after disagreeing strongly with my findings, went and taught at a public school (her position was being cut at the parochial one) and discovered that she agreed with my findings. It was more that my findings and experiences affected her worldview in this case than the other way around. If I, and my aunt and uncle, hadn't encouraged her to give public education a try, she probably would've retired. Her public school is now talking about making her head of the science department, since they think she's such a great teacher and she has a master's in science education from USC. She says that the public school is a "much better place to teach and to learn." My mom and my aunt (PhD in education and university professor at a Catholic university) and uncle (also PhD in education and DEAN at a catholic university) used to go round and round over the catholic education system that every one of them went through. My aunt and uncle (brother and sister) had studied and analyzed catholic schools. My uncle did his doctoral dissertation on them. My mom only had her own experiences and a "gut feeling". My mom insisted catholic schools were superior. My aunt and uncle disagreed strongly. Both my aunt and uncle agree that Catholic Universities provide a very good education. They do not, however, think the same of catholic elementary schools. They've done extensive research on the matter in the course of their degrees and their current positions. There may be areas where the catholic school system is superior. (East LA immediately comes to mind, not because of the quality of education available, but because of social factors). However, overall, I believe, through my own analysis, and through reading the analysis of others, and from speaking extensively with many university professors, that for the most part, public schools can offer superior opportunities to children. Religious education can take place at home, at church, and through youth groups. My family is very catholic, and my cousins (mother is the aunt mentioned above), although they attend public school, are very well versed in Catholic doctrine, and have made first communion, and will be confirmed in high school, if that is their wish. My cousins are most definitely educated as catholics. they simply do not attend catholic school. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #42 June 16, 2004 not universally, of course. However, it is the justification given for not requiring college professors to take classes in how to teach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallman 0 #43 June 17, 2004 First off, I do not have any formal education on the subject of private/public/parochial schools. The following are just my experiences. I went to private parochial schools throughout my education until i went to college. I am now at a public university and don't think i could go back to a religious setting, it just didn't fit me. That's not to say it's wrong for everyone. Schools really have to be judged at your local level. The only reason i was put in a parochial school was that it was the only way for me to get an education with adequated resources. The increased tuition provides much more disposable income for a school. The public schools in my area recently had to choose one period to 'eliminate' because they can't afford to have seven periods anymore. There are obvious problems with the public schools in my area including violence, horrible attendance, and the students test low(poor overall education). If a college sees an applicant with the same gpa from my private school and the local public school who do u think they will accept? Certainly not the kid from the high school well known for a poor quality of education. Another thing that could be viewed as good or bad is the increased level of competition at private schools. Children are encouraged to get better grades to the point of a stress overload. For someone already in a difficult time in their life(high school students), should the main focus in their life really be their school curriculum. Some kids spent so much time studying that they may have permanently socially handicapped themselves. Children need free time to grow and learn through doing the stupid childish things we all did/do. In my area, the only way to get a top quality education was to go the catholic school route. However, the theory that religion provides a moral backbone of some sort didn't hold water there. Drug usage was high, people were just as mean to each other if not crueler than at a public school, i have heard accounts of people buying grades as well as their way out of trouble. The latter could be simply applied to schools in wealthy areas. The whole experience has cast a negative light on religion for me. Everything at private schools seems to be money related and you have to be careful with what message that sends to youngsters. I learned at a very young age that with enough money I could get away with anything. Can't make grades, no problem, just have ur parents make a sizable donation. No matter where u send ur kids, as was pointed out above parental attention is a HUGE factor. Many of my friends went to a public school. How my friends viewed education was usually nearly identical to how their parents viewed it. I knew i was going to college before i finished 5th grade because my parents told me it was simply part of the process. It wasn't if i was going to go to college but what college i would attend. woa....that was cool.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #44 June 17, 2004 QuoteQuote Adults in college already know how to learn. Well, I could write a long essay about that. Suffice to say, it is not universally true. Absolutely. Your mind is clearly closed to the advantages of conservative political orientation, and you are a Professor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #45 June 17, 2004 "Not his fault John, He's American." Now that's a bit unfair. I blame it on the nuns. Aside from a pressing need for neatness, order and structure, I'n pretty sure they drilled him on the rote memory stuff. Try him on multiplication tables ;) "Bless him, Sometimes I swear he understands every word I say to him." He's such a sweet boy. "I feel a bit like Jane Goodall some days." You look a bit like Jane ...in her later years. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #46 June 17, 2004 QuoteQuote The Catholic School where I grew up was pretty well known locally for having higher pregnancy rates, higher arrests of their students for DUI's and lower test scores then the public schools around them. That goes back to my littebug point. If those behaviors were accepted, they were committed. Yeah, if the parents tolerate that stuff, it will happen. Young people rise to their expectations. No disrespect intended, but ;) is it possible that your experiences have led you to desire life to be neat, structured and orderly and you equate that with academic superiority? For example, what kind of work do you do? I'd give small odds that it was something with a clearly understood hierarchial structure. (military?) Do I have a problem viewing the catholic church as fostering creative, open learning environments ...well, yes, I do. Peace, Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #47 June 17, 2004 My girls went to Catholic school for three years and loved it. I loved it. Everyone knew each other and I never had such incredible communication with teachers. It was truely one big family. When we moved I will never forget how the entire school (which wasn't very big..one class per grade k-8) stood outside in the parking lot to say goodbye in unison to my girls. When they switched back to public school after we moved they could not believe the way the kids acted. The noise, the attitudes, etc. I believe that Catholic School gave my children a solid foundation on which to build on...either the teachings or fear of Sister Patricia.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #48 June 17, 2004 They are useful. Someone has to work at McDonalds.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #49 June 17, 2004 QuotePublic schools: 100% Credentialed Parochial schools: 60% Credentialed Proves nothing. Neither do any of the other statistics you've posted. Why not focus on what matters - ACT/SAT test scores, college admissions, etc . . . Quoteinteresting, isn't it? Not particularly. Your argument reminds of the non-USPA DZs aren't as safe as USPA DZs debate. I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in your assumptions, rather that the information you presented does nothing to prove your case. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #50 June 17, 2004 the catholic schools refused to provide me with these statistics, saying they do not track elementary students, only high school Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
