Zenister 0 #26 June 8, 2004 that i can respect..your at least at a range the bear might be able to reach you before it dies.....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #27 June 8, 2004 Why don't get some bull testicles for the boss and have them delivered with a note; "We've got the bull by the balls." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #28 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuote if you do it do it with a spear...really earn your bear pelt.. By "spear" do you mean "Dave's encredibly huge penis"? Ever see Super Troopers? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #29 June 8, 2004 Quote I like the notion of hunting (occasionally go for abalone) and consider it more sound than buying meat at the market, but to kill a creature merely for display purposes is a waste. Sometimes the creatures have their own connections and put contracts out on the hunters. From The Cape Times :- SOUTH AFRICA 'Shark killed poacher' June 7, 2004 By Jo-Anne Smetherham and Babalo Ndenze Self-confessed poachers yesterday described swimming frantically from a colleague, who was calling for help after a shark bit off his leg, in fear of being attacked themselves. The body of the man has not yet been recovered. Eight men - survivors admit to being perlemoen poachers - were diving near Dyer Island on Wednesday afternoon in an area that shark tour operators have dubbed "Shark Alley", when the attack occurred. Ps. Perlemoen is the local vernacular for abalone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #30 June 8, 2004 QuoteThe really strange thing is, he also wants to have a full sized bull rubbed out. But that costs 4 times as much as a bear. Seems a little backward to me. But apparently the taxidermy is most of the cost, not the hunting. I don't know - It sounds like a load of bull to me...*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PrairieDoug 0 #31 June 8, 2004 Cool no, disturbing yes. I'm not against hunting in all circumstances, but killing a bear is not justified by the desire to display a trophy. Especially when the trophy is a symbol of something -- man's insatiable material appetite -- so far removed from the values of nature. What a fucking waste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #32 June 8, 2004 Quotebut killing a bear is not justified by the desire to display a trophy Notice the part where it was said that all the meat was sold off, i.e. not thrown away. So the meat is being used and the trophy is a cool side effect.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #33 June 8, 2004 Exactly. He made sure that the meat would be used, not just killed for the pelt. And he tried for a year to find one that already existed. Contacted hunting lodges all over the country, etc. to find one he could buy, but no luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PrairieDoug 0 #34 June 8, 2004 That the meat was sold off makes it less wasteful than if the carcass was just allowed to rot on the ground, but IMHO it doesn't change the fact that the primary purpose of killing the bear was to create a tasteless, creepy trophy. That the guy looked for an already dead bear without success is definitely not justification for killing one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #35 June 8, 2004 Hmmm, your avatar makes me think I'd like a stuffed prarie dog on my desk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #36 June 8, 2004 BTW, the bear population in Washington state, where this one came from, is 50,000 plus and on the rise. Has been since 1994. The forestry service issues a specific number of licenses for bear each year to keep the population in check so they don't starve to death. It's not like an extra bear were killed. Someone else just would have gotten this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PrairieDoug 0 #37 June 8, 2004 QuoteHmmm, your avatar makes me think I'd like a stuffed prarie dog on my desk. Hey greenies, help -- I'm being personally attacked! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #38 June 8, 2004 QuoteThe forestry service issues a specific number of licenses for bear each year to keep the population in check so they don't starve to death. A lot of anti-hunting types don't actually understand that. It comes down to if people wouldn't have moved there, the population would be naturally controlled; however, since people do live in areas formerly lived in by lots of different wildlife (every single part of the US...and the world, is this way), preditors are in low numbers. That means animal populations get out of control and we have to control them or the population would begin dying off on the own and in higher numbers then hunting. There have been many many many studies on this, but I'm about to leave the computer lab and go to class, so if anyone cares to, they can google it and post links.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #39 June 8, 2004 its not the killing i mind so much the manner in which it is done...long range with high powered rifles?? rather cowardly IMO... get down in it, put your own life in as much risk as the animal's whom you are taking.. the human population could use a some of the same controls... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #40 June 8, 2004 dont you all think that some pictures are in order here? --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #41 June 8, 2004 Quotedont you all think that some pictures are in order here? Yeah...actually I meant to bring my camera in today but forgot it. Will try to remember tomorrow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #42 June 8, 2004 Quoteits not the killing i mind so much the manner in which it is done...long range with high powered rifles?? rather cowardly IMO... get down in it, put your own life in as much risk as the animal's whom you are taking.. That makes about as much sense as strangling a cow before going out for burgers. What does courage have to do with hunting - think of it as 'harvesting' rather than competition then you get the idea. We won, opposable thumbs and all that. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #43 June 8, 2004 your not going out for burgers, your taking another life and pretending you 'earned' it, people would eat alot less meat if they had to face the reality of the slaughter required for it everyday. If you have to work for your food you have alot more respect for its source. High powered rifles at long ranges is not work... 'big brave hunter' is a HUGE part of the motivation for many hunters dont believe me go talk to them when they are celebrating their "victory" over the beast... Got thumbs? Ok, use those thumbs and your superior mind to make your weapon, take that weapon and use your skills and the energy created by you to find and kill your prey. Do you think buying your prepackaged kit from the store illustrates your superiority to the bear?? hell many hunters cant even explain you how their firearm really work, and they certainly couldnt create one on their own. They buy their tools and ammo from the store, bait fields and wait for the meat to come to them, along preplanned paths that others have established for them..... and somehow think they've done something special and earned the rug/head/stuffed carcass they killed with technology they dont understand and could never replicate. Your right, we might as well change it to a 'farming' license, put the bears in the stockades next to the cows and herd them into the slaughter house. The animal has the exact same chance of survival, and the human will have about the same level of effort to get their food. Of course then hunting would lose the fantasy that appeals so much to so many... there is a fundamental wrong with buying a trophy. It certainly isnt improved by the fact that it takes more time and effort to stuff and mount it, than it did to kill it in the first place.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #44 June 8, 2004 Quotethere is a fundamental wrong with buying a trophy. It certainly isnt improved by the fact that it takes more time and effort to stuff and mount it, than it did to kill it in the first place. See, the point you may be missin here is that it is not a hunting trophy. It is a symbol of the stock market. He's not claiming he went out and hunted the bear. He's claiming he's been successful in the stock market to the point where he can have someone go out and hunt the bear for him. It may be hard to hunt a bear with a bow. But try coming up with a proprietary mathematic formula for valuing stocks and then convince people to give you 15 billion dollars based on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 June 8, 2004 Now that was a SWEET rant. I agree that hunting and fishing is not an athletic sport - it's more of a hobby. Like checkers, or car racing. So what? If some hunters are fooling themselves, then that's their problem, not yours or mine. But to lump them all into chest pounding neanderthals does the individual a disservice. Not all animal rightists are slobbering paint throwers who'll knife the next farmer they meet either. Still the concept of hunting being 'fair' seems a like a real logical mistake and a dead end in a debate. It's not supposed to be fair nor should it be fair. Either today or in it's origins. Those hunters that think so are fooling themselves since the contest is recreation (hunter) vs survival (animal). But go ahead and argue that with farmers and pet owners to be consistent then. And also throw away your fly swatter since that's just survival (fly) vs shallow comfort (swatter/swatterer/The Swattenator) If there's a market for bear meat and bear skins, I have no issue with a controlled bear farm and slaughterhouse (now is that a descriptive word or what? at least they don't pull punches or cover it up in gentle PC language). But that's likely equivalent to the allowance to approve limited hunting for population control. So no issues here. Simpson's "It's not really a killing floor, Timmy. That's not the right word. It's more of a steel grate to allow liquids and waste to sluice through" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #46 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuotethere is a fundamental wrong with buying a trophy. It certainly isnt improved by the fact that it takes more time and effort to stuff and mount it, than it did to kill it in the first place. See, the point you may be missin here is that it is not a hunting trophy. It is a symbol of the stock market. He's not claiming he went out and hunted the bear. He's claiming he's been successful in the stock market to the point where he can have someone go out and hunt the bear for him. It may be hard to hunt a bear with a bow. But try coming up with a proprietary mathematic formula for valuing stocks and then convince people to give you 15 billion dollars based on it. and commissioning a statue of a bear would be different how??____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #47 June 8, 2004 Quoteand commissioning a statue of a bear would be different how?? It gets damaged when you shoot it and the taxidermist gets very frustrated while trying to stuff it. Let alone the starving orphans that lost their food for the winter. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #48 June 8, 2004 Quote since the contest is recreation (hunter) vs survival (animal). exactly, and (IMO) the bear's life should be given more respect than the casual recreation a hunter gets from the simple easy action of pulling the trigger. Putting your own in some danger as well is a way of showing that respect. of course some people have issues with taking life for purely entertainment purposes in the first place...if you dont need to hunt to survive, then why take the easiest route possible? the only reasons i can imagine are cowardice and sloth..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #49 June 8, 2004 Quoteand commissioning a statue of a bear would be different how?? Cool factor. I saw the crowd of people around this thing on the sidewalk yesterday. People from another office came up today to have their picture taken with it. And you know what wouldn't be different? The number of bear. Like I said, the population is controlled by the forestry service anyway. One way or another, someone was shooting a bear, either for themselves as a trophy, and to let the meat rot. Or for us as a trophy, and sold the meat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #50 June 8, 2004 Quoteif you dont need to hunt to survive, then why take the easiest route possible? the only reasons i can imagine are cowardice and sloth.. The easiest route possible is going to the grocery store. Do you do that, or do you hunt and kill all your own meat with your bare hands? If you don't, your stance is hypcritical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
