rehmwa 2 #51 June 8, 2004 Yet you continue to lump all hunters into the same mentality (actually, now two catagories cowards and slothtards - I just made up that last one). Just because you don't empathize doesn't mean there aren't as many reasons as people. Purposely adding to the danger quotient is not adding respect, it's just dumb. Again, it's not about fairness, thumbs, brains, etc. But you can succeed in thinning out the stupid hunters with this philosophy. Thus leaving us with more efficient harvestors in succeeding generations. Darwin rules. One can also argue that hunting your own food is more difficult than buying the steak at the store. and tons more expensive. The next time you see a herd of cows rampaging a schoolyard, eating helpless little children, you'll change your tune. Vicious, human-hating beasts that they are. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #52 June 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteif you dont need to hunt to survive, then why take the easiest route possible? the only reasons i can imagine are cowardice and sloth.. The easiest route possible is going to the grocery store. Do you do that, or do you hunt and kill all your own meat with your bare hands? If you don't, your stance is hypcritical. invalid argument. Did you miss the "dont need to hunt" part? 1st: I'm not taking life for entertainment, I dont hunt as i recognize it for what it is, entertainment. 2nd: When I did hunt (after my first year of hunting which left a sour taste in my mouth from how ridiculously easy it was) i have used bows and spears, both of which i helped make.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #53 June 8, 2004 QuoteYet you continue to lump all hunters into the same mentality (actually, now two catagories cowards and slothtards - I just made up that last one). Just because you don't empathize doesn't mean there aren't as many reasons as people. Purposely adding to the danger quotient is not adding respect, it's just dumb. Again, it's not about fairness, thumbs, brains, etc. But you can succeed in thinning out the stupid hunters with this philosophy. Thus leaving us with more efficient harvestors in succeeding generations. Darwin rules. One can also argue that hunting your own food is more difficult than buying the steak at the store. and tons more expensive. The next time you see a herd of cows rampaging a schoolyard, eating helpless little children, you'll change your tune. Vicious, human-hating beasts that they are. as if we need 'harvestors' no it would actually be nice. (to see a herd of cattle rampaging thru a school yard) We have a bigger population problem than any other species on earth..perhaps we should issue licenses to hunt humans? When ever animals and humans come in conflict i cheer for the animal.Your "hunting philosophy" is the exact reason why your children will never see a tiger in the wild. Everyone with a rifle thought they deserved a pelt on the wall... Actually i'm talking specifically about those who use firearms, baited feilds/game trails and treestands (the vast majority). Why dont they just shoot stray dogs? smaller targets, but just as predictable behavior...hell most of them will come when you whistle so you can get a clean shot off...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #54 June 8, 2004 You know what burns me up even more, though? People who pollute the atmosphere by taking joy rides in airplanes just so they can jump out of them. They don't "need" to do it. It's a perfectly good airplane. Make it sporting and put the plane into an uncontrolled spiral before exiting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #55 June 8, 2004 now your just being stupid.. no one is taking a life for entertainment(other than their own perhaps) while skydiving .____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #56 June 8, 2004 Quotenow your just being stupid... But you're the one cheering on the killing of children in the schoolyard. I'm out of here now. It was fun until you showed that side. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #57 June 8, 2004 and i'm sorry if you fail to see the value of all life and that it shouldnt be taken lightly..human or otherwise, but we are doing a damn fine job of making sure we are the only species that occupies the earth...and primarily for our own convenience and entertainment. even when the animals 'win' on occasion the 'game' was still over long ago..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #58 June 8, 2004 Quoteand i'm sorry if you fail to see the value of all life and that it shouldnt be taken lightly I'm sorry if you fail to see the value of not letting animals starve to death when their population can be controlled more humanely. Hell, I don't hunt, but I'm glad people do. I'd rather this bear or any other animal dies relatively painlessly as compared to a slow starvation. I agree it would be better if human existence didn't need to encroach on animal habitat, but it does. And that has nothing to do with hunting. I think my analogy was pretty accurate. People die from pollution related illnesses all the time. Emphysema, asthma, cancer, etc. You just don't happen to enjoy hunting so it's easy for you to not see any value in it. But if someone were to say the same thing about skydiving, suddenly that's stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #59 June 8, 2004 its still a stupid analogy.. no where in skydiving is anyone deliberately taking a life for their own entertainment.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #60 June 8, 2004 Quoteits still a stupid analogy.. no where in skydiving is anyone deliberately taking a life for their own entertainment. It's all a matter of perspective. By not hunting you are contributing to the starvation of overpopulated animals. The bottom line is, nothing anyone does is without consequence, it's how you weigh those consequences against the benefit that really matters. Hunting benefit: Personal enjoyment, food, trophy, population control, saving animals from starvation, conservation. Hunting consequence: An animal is killed. ---------------------------- Skydiving benefit: personal enjoyment Skydiving consequence: air pollution, noise pollution, needless use of natural resources Which is more selfish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #61 June 8, 2004 your not contributing to anything, your letting an existing biological process take its course, as it has for millions of years.. (of course that justification might make you feel better.. "it was starving!!", so are lots of people should we shoot them too??) the primary reason bears are killed isnt population control to prevent starvation, its to maintain the "cultural carrying capacity" (preventing encroachment into human areas) the same reason cougars have nearly been hunting to extinction in many places..simply label it 'vermin' and shoot it when its on your land or steals your sheep (that you brought into its home in the first place..) its all about our own convenience and entertainment, and those are sad reasons to take any life and then put it's carcass on display for 'cool' factor...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #62 June 8, 2004 Quoteits all about our own convenience and entertainment, and those are sad reasons to take any life and then put it's carcass on display for 'cool' factor... And again, I say using airplanes for skydiving is for your convenience and entertainment. You're judging other people based on their perspective of compromise between good for them and bad for others. What benefit does skydiving provide to non-skydivers? It's a sad reason to pollute the atmosphere. For the record, I don't hunt, I don't have any hunting trophies. But I can understand why someone would want to. And I can see how the benefits to the environment can justify someone doing it. Human encroachment is an entirely different matter. Hunting is used to correct the imbalance that encroachment causes. But the morality of human encroachment is an entirely different discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #63 June 8, 2004 if you cant see the vast difference between a willful act to end a life and a 'harmless' activity that does admittedly contribute to a less healthy atmosphere...well... me thinks your being deliberately obtuse....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #64 June 8, 2004 Yes, I actually see a big difference. I think responsible and controlled hunting is more beneficial to society and the environment than skydiving is. I see your point of view and understand it. That's pretty much the opposite of obtuse. I just don't agree with it. If there were some reason I had to make a decision between banning all hunting or banning all skydiving, I'd choose the latter. And I don't hunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #65 June 8, 2004 QuoteIf there were some reason I had to make a decision between banning all hunting or banning all skydiving, I'd choose the latter. And I don't hunt. The $1,000+ in damage to my car done by a semi-starved deer crossing an interstate for food leads me to agree with you, Kev. BTW, the deer was just as dead as if it had been killed by a hunter. No meat, no economic value, no positive memory for me. Just dead. I, too, am not a hunter, but I see more value in hunting than I ever will in skydiving. Zenister, I also see your point, and should I ever choose to hunt a non-predatory animal, I believe I would choose tools I did (or could) make myself. (I missed out on a wild-boar hunt with lances only because I was travelling) However, the first time I face a bear (theoretically) I would rather have a Compund bow with steel tipped composite arrows than a recurve with wood and stone arrows. (and honestly, the first time I face a bear for blood, I'd rather have a Ruger .30-06 than any bow)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #66 June 8, 2004 i dont have a problem with the act of hunting, nor am i trying to ban it. i have a problem in the mass production method in which it is performed, primarily for entertainment... when its done in a manner that does not rely on technology, pre established game routes, baited fields, and waiting for the victim to walk by (often while consuming large amounts of alcohol) as i said, you might as well hunt for stray dogs in large cities for all the skill and effort required ( and you'd be providing a benefit to the environment, after all strays are a public nuisance too) use a weapon that is powered by your own strength, stalk and close with your prey to look it in the eyes, put yourself at some level of risk in a manner that allows the animal some chance of escape/revenge, and i believe you should be allowed to hunt any animal on the planet... we certainly wouldn’t be as far down the road to extinction with so many species if so many hunters didnt have the 'little thought, less effort required, point and shoot' method of killing, and we'd probably have a few less humans in the world as well..... all in all good things…____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #67 June 8, 2004 I don't entirely disagree with you. Tell you what. Come to philly and we'll go slaughter some burgers from the super market and grill them up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #68 June 8, 2004 Quotee'll go slaughter some burgers from the super market and grill them up. Besure to shoot them in their natural habitat before you take them home...if you try to approach them in the super market without shooting them first, they could actually charge and kill you. The best way is to setup a hunting blind in the beer isle with a trusty rifle, something like a 30-06...besure to keep quiet so you don't scare them off. If you want to bait them, leave some pickles and ketchup out about 100ft from your blind. Good hunting!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #69 June 8, 2004 sounds good, can we wear silly flannel hats and carry supersoakers into the Grocery? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #70 June 8, 2004 Quotesounds good, can we wear silly flannel hats and carry supersoakers into the Grocery? While that would be fun, not a good idea to brandish any kind of gun around Philly, toy or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #71 June 8, 2004 No, no no, you have to wear an orange hat, bright orange, but wear realtree camo on all other parts of your body. You might want to pick up some real tree boxers as well...just in case.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #72 June 8, 2004 i'd heard that..one of my Drill Sgt's was from Philly and he said he was more frightened growing up there than he ever was in Iraq during DS1...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #73 June 9, 2004 Quote And you know what wouldn't be different? The number of bear. Like I said, the population is controlled by the forestry service anyway. One way or another, someone was shooting a bear, either for themselves as a trophy, and to let the meat rot. Or for us as a trophy, and sold the meat. This sounds more like an attempt to justify (read, make excuses) than to offer a defense for the action, Kev. We often try to help nature along, but I rarely see us improving the situation. Ignoring that bear populations are hardly healthy (unlike deer) due in large part to habitat depletion, your guy paid someone else to kill an animal for display purposes. That the meat was sold (more likely given away - predator meat is rarely preferred for consumption) doesn't change this; it at best mitigates it. IMO that is a large karma debt. You want to dance on the body of another creature...do the dirty work yourself. People who do the killing have respect for what it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #74 June 14, 2004 Ok, here's the pics. Got me a new icon, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #75 June 14, 2004 Has he got a name yet? I vote "Martin". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
