Pentagon email reveals Cheney, Halliburton link

[mikkey 0]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/31/1085855463688.html

I have not noticed this before checking the local news paper. Is this a "real story"?

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[quade 4]

Well, it's a "real story", but until we see the memo and it gets checked out, it may not be a "true story".

My insticts, which have been wrong about things before, tells me that the story is based in some truth. Whether or not it's as damning as this story makes it out to be is to be seen.

To me, the Cheney/Halliburton link has -always- looked fishy and what bugs me is that they have to know it looks fishy to a LOT of other people as well. For them to do something so brazen that far in recent history would speak volumes about how little regard they (Cheney/Halliburton/GWB/GOP) have for the American public.

This would be a -major- scandal -- if it's true.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

More information and denials are hitting the news.

The reason this isn't moving too fast is, I believe, the Memorial Day weekend and most of the pudits are out having barbeque. I -assume- this will take off on Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/30/cheney.halliburton/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040607-644111,00.html?cnn=yes

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TheAnvil 0]

Doubtful. I keep asking those screaming 'Halliburton is getting such and such contract because of Cheney cronyism' to tell me the role of the VP in the contracting process. I never get an answer (because the answer doesn't fit into their skewed paradigm of life).

Anytime a sole source contract is awarded a Justification and Authorization must be completed. It costs any company desiring to protest US$0.37 (the price of a stamp) to make a protest on any contract award. The stories circulating about such Halliburton conspiracies never cite J&A's nor do they mention any companies protesting, therefore I give them little credibility. Actually, I tend to think of those screaming such things as morons who don't know what they are talking about.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

For what its worth, Dave Lesar, Halliburton's current CEO has made numerous internal (I'm currently employed by Halliburton's KBR division), and public statements stating that all this is clean and above board.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[quade 4]

Because a lot of CEOs are willing to come out and say when their company is doing something a bit shady.

I'm not saying that anything in particular is going on here, but I believe one the of the things that pissed off so many people at Enron was that the company officers were telling their employees to continue buying stock while at the same time they were siphoning off millions from it.

Some businesses lie quite a bit. Even some very good, well known, trusted "family" companies.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,154]

>Anytime a sole source contract is awarded a Justification and Authorization
> must be completed. It costs any company desiring to protest US$0.37
>(the price of a stamp) to make a protest on any contract award.

They did protest, and the protest was upheld. The GAO instructed the Army to re-evaluate their decision. They did so and picked Halliburton again. Sorta like the beer rules - "If the person who owes beer protests the call, they may appeal to the DZO or S+TA, who will rule against them a second time."

> Actually, I tend to think of those screaming such things as morons
>who don't know what they are talking about.

Now that's funny! People in glass houses and all that.

[Botellines 0]

Am i the only one here who sees a conflict of interest? Dick Chenney had some word on deciding wether going to war or not AND stock options in a company who may (and did lawfully or unlawfully) economicly benefit from the war.
That is just not right, even if it was true that the contract was awarded lawfully to Halliburton (which personally i think not).
In the meantime more people dying...
Don´t you conservatives want to know, just in case, if you all have been scammed by the government? I mean, it wouldn´t be the first time a government in the planet does that. It has happened in Spain, in Argentina, Peru, Germany, etc, etc. Why do you think that will not happen to you?
After all, being a bit skeptical and doing a full enquiry will not do any harm, if everything was legal you just apology, if not at least you got the truth and can act accordingly.

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Doubtful. I keep asking those screaming 'Halliburton is getting such and such contract because of Cheney cronyism' to tell me the role of the VP in the contracting process. I never get an answer (because the answer doesn't fit into their skewed paradigm of life).

By examining the meetings Cheyney had with Halliburton while determining the US energy policy, it is clear what the connection is. Of course he has steadfastly refused to answer any questions or release any notes regarding those meetings fro purely altruistic reasons.

[billvon 3,154]

> Am i the only one here who sees a conflict of interest? Dick Chenney had
> some word on deciding wether going to war or not AND stock options in a
>company who may (and did lawfully or unlawfully) economicly benefit from
>the war.

Plus which he is still being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by Halliburton. Right wingers will claim that it's all deferred compensation, and it's not really a salary, and he'll get it no matter what, but when all's said and done Halliburton is sending him regular paychecks. It takes a pair of very rosy glasses to see that and claim that there's no connection.

[TheAnvil 0]

Hi Bill!
To which protest are you referring, when you say the protest was upheld? Which portion of what J&A was found to be out of line by the GAO?

For a good laugh, look at the history of the LOGCAP contract for the Army. Look at when Halliburton received the contract under competitive and non-competetitive circumstances and who was in office when the awards were made.


This cronyism argument holds even less water than the 'Republicans are racist' argument [sic] in which the left loves to revel.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Am i the only one here who sees a conflict of interest? Dick Chenney had some word on deciding wether going to war or not AND stock options in a company who may (and did lawfully or unlawfully) economicly benefit from the war.

Cheney deferred all stock options, financial incentives etc when he began campaigning on the 2000 election.

The Executive Branch of the US government does not award federal contracts.

Quote

by the government? I mean, it wouldn´t be the first time a government in the planet does that

The US is already in that club. There hasn't been an administration in the past 50 years without a scandal or bruise on its record. From President Johnson through Clinton. ... ...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Hi Bill! Please tell me what the role of the VP is in the contracting process. You failed to answer.

And because he may not have an official role in that process, I guess political influence has nothing to do with these types of decisions. Talk about an interesting paradigm.

[TheAnvil 0]

So you admit that you don't know how the government awards contracts while freely using the Vice President's former affiliation with Halliburton as a means of political attack? I wouldn't, but that's just me.

Answer my question please. Bill, Philly, Botellines, etc: What is the role of the VP in awarding government defense contracts? Or the President for that matter?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

I gave you the answer: political influence

I'd like to know how you can claim it's a former affiliation.

[JAC 0]

I know there are many sides to a story.... but IMHO this is just one of many supposed coincidences that perhaps isn't really a coincidence.

From the article at The Guardian

"But Mr Cheney has not severed his links with Halliburton. Last year, he received $178,437 in deferred compensation from the company.

Reports suggest that the process of awarding contracts has changed under the Bush administration. A report to the House of Representatives committee on government reform last week noted that $107bn in contracts had been awarded without open competition. Nearly three-quarters of those exclusive arrangements - worth about $88bn - involved work in Iraq, the report said. Halliburton has won a sizeable share of them."

[TheAnvil 0]

No, that is NOT an answer. I ask basic questions concerning defense acquisition for pedagogical purposes and never get an answer.

ATTENTION LEFT WINGERS: prior to attempting to discuss defense acquisition with me, educate yourselves.

I present the following link as a starting point for your education:

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/

Questions you should be able to answer off the top of your head prior to resuming discussion with me are:

- role of VP in the acquisition process
- role of USD (AT&L)? Who is he/she? Who appointed? For how long? Responsibilities/authority?
- J & A - what's allowable
- RFP's - how they are released
- FEDBIZOPS - what is it?
- Proposal evaluation factors - describe.
- ACO/PCO/TCO/CAO - what are they? Their roles?

Hmmm....that should do it for now. When you can do the above, come back with me and we'll discuss it.

Professor Anvil, out.
Oh - i forgot. I AM A JACKASS!!!!!!

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

Regulations are nice, when they are followed. The point that you are trying to avoid is that the regulations were NOT followed.

"the initial decision to award Halliburton a task order to develop the oil infrastructure plan violated federal acquisition regulation."

"the decision to award the oil infrastructure contract to Halliburton was taken up 'to the highest levels of the administration.'"

"an internal Pentagon e-mail dated March 5, 2003, stated that 'action' on the Halliburton contract was 'coordinated' with the Vice President's office. The e-mail also describes involvement by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Under Secretary for Policy Douglas Feith in approving the contract."

-Congress of the United States, House of Representatives, Committee on Government Reform, 6/1/2004

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs_108_2/pdfs_inves/pdf_admin_halliburton_contract_cheney_june_1_let.pdf

So please explain to me, Professor, how you know more than the congressional committee assigned to investigate these affairs.

EDIT - And by the way, this is a direct answer as to what role the VP plays. Political influence. Just because it's not laid out in writing, and violated federal regulations doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In fact that's the point that we're discussing.

[billvon 3,154]

>Please tell me what the role of the VP is in the contracting process.

I've answered before. There is supposed to be no role whatsoever. So the fact that the Pentagon sent out an email confirming that they would coordinate the selection process for a massive contract through the VP's office is pretty odd, eh?

>to which protest are you referring, when you say the protest was upheld?
> Which portion of what J&A was found to be out of line by the GAO?

An AP article from 2002 lists problems with Halliburton contract awards, including:

"The $300 million, five-year Navy contract was awarded to Brown & Root in April 2001, three months after Cheney became vice president. It followed a November 2000 recommendation from the General Accounting Office that upheld a protest of the original Navy decision in June 2000 to give the Halliburton subsidiary the contract.

The GAO arbitrator questioned the criteria used by the Navy in evaluating the bidders, as well as the Navy's cost analysis, and recommended that new bids be solicited.

Instead, the Navy decided to re-evaluate the original bids ''with requested changes in criteria and the result was the same,'' Navy spokesman John Peters said."

[billvon 3,154]

>So please explain to me, Professor, how you know more than the
>congressional committee assigned to investigate these affairs.

Cause he's a conservative, and some of the members of that committee may have been democrats.

[quade 4]

Latest TIME Magazine Article.

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The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PhillyKev 0]

That time piece is along the lines of a WSJ article I read a few weeks ago. Basically that one said that if Iraqi companies had just been given copper wire, they could have rebuilt existing communications systems that were destroyed by bombing and been done a long time ago. Instead, Halliburton insists that every component be completely rebuilt from scratch and upgraded, by themselves.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Some businesses lie quite a bit."
"Because a lot of CEOs are willing to come out and say when their company is doing something a bit shady."

Don't get me wrong Paul, and Bill, if Halliburton weren't paying me to post here, I would probably be all over this shouting Scandal. I am after all, a freelance contractor, and therefore have negotiable loyalty to any given company. I'm just playing fair for a change.

If there is any genuine conflict of interest of any real significance, this would surely have been formally and openly investigated by now, would it not? If there were a real case to be made here, would the opposition in DC not be really interested in it, given the timing, potential damage to Dubbya etc?

Somebody mentioned that Cheney got about 100,000 ($178,000) quid for his involvement in this epsiode, in terms of corruption, that really is a chicken-shit amount when you compare with the size of the prize. I've personally seen larger sums being offered as sweeteners or bakshish on contracts of much smaller value. The energy industry is rife with conflict of interest, it just doesn't seem worth Cheney's exposure and potential demise for such a small amount.

As with many aspects of this conflict, it just doesn't make sense to me.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[TheAnvil 0]

You dodge yet again. Figure out what you're talking about and get back to me.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Botellines 0]

Quote

Cheney deferred all stock options, financial incentives etc when he began campaigning on the 2000 election.

Does it mean that he gave away or donate ALL of his Stock options before taking office?
I may have misunderstood the information but i thought that he still had something like 480000 stock options AND was getting a fixed amount EACH year in deferred payment.
The latest looks dodgy to me. If he nneds to severe all his ties with Halliburton due to political implications why don´t they give him the money all at the same time. I am sure that Haliburton can afford that amount.