mr2mk1g 10 #26 May 28, 2004 Yes, terrorism is a little different but if you start making exceptions to the rules just because you're dealing with terrorists you can end up messing up the whole system in a rather serious way. With an unwritten constitution (as we have in the UK) we rely on precedent. There has never been a retrospective law before, so no one is really sure if parliament could actually pass one... although parliament is supposed to be able to do whatever it likes. It would take years of arguing to get it through if it was at all possible. If we did pass such a law, that would be a precedent to allow later retrospective laws. We wouldn’t be able to prevent later gov’ts from passing such laws, as one parliament is not able to limit the powers of a later one. Each parliament has supreme power… (except with regard to matters enshrined in our ethereal constitution as this is). Trust me, you don’t want retrospective laws. Constitutionally, we as citizens are allowed to do anything we like unless there is a law against it. Practically, how are we supposed to know we're not allowed to do it if the law hasn't been written yet? Constitutionally, public bodies are not allowed to do anything unless there is a law that says they can. What if a public body does something illegal and is held to account, then the gov’t simply passes a law which said what they did was legal? You end up with a gov’t that can do anything it wants and cannot be held to account by anyone. Retrospective laws don’t work. I know it only seems like a little bending of a minor rule in a special case, but it really would have massive implications for the UK constitution if we tried it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #27 May 28, 2004 Quote"if you were involved in organised terror or links to organised terrorist groups or assistance to those groups and their activities, regardless of when this was - if we can prove this, even though the law is being passed now, then why can't that be admissable?" Cool, we could arrest Tony Blair for shaking hands and being all pally with Gadaffi. i couldn't agree more - we must clean our own house first before we can expect others to follow suit. Obviously i'm joking. It is frustrating though. I know it's a fine line between preserving human rights and draconian law, but come on people (not anyone here, just people in general) - how is it so wrong to say "you were involved in terrorist activity in 1999, so even though this is a new law as of 2000, you will be prosecuted because, hey, you shouldn't have been doing that". Why can't the law just be changed to take account of historical activity when making new laws, is, i guess, what i'm wondering? (mrmk1g feel free to grab the mic whenever you like) Edited to add - never mind you already did a good job on the above post, thanks, i get it.) "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #28 May 28, 2004 hehe - answered it about 10 secs before you asked it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #29 May 28, 2004 Quoteaparently we can't extradite him on those grounds, but: "Under current laws, Britain must ask the US to pledge they will not apply the death penalty before any extradition is approved. The US will use every diplomatic, legal and administrative tool to pursue and to prosecute those who facilitate terrorist activity But a barrister specialising in extradition cases, Paul Garlick, says that guarantee would have no legal standing once Abu Hamza was in the US. Former assistant US attorney-general Victoria Tonsing insisted there would be no possibility of an execution: "If you ever broke a promise like that, there would never be another extradition." That's from the link you posted earlier i think (well the link to Blunkett defending the extradition case, i forget who posted it). I mean this makes sense - if they promised not to allow him to be sentenced to death and subsequently did do, i think that would be the end of diplomatic relations between us and them. Or at least it should be if they renege on such an agreement. Ha. The states happily execute foreigners whose rights to consular notification and access have been violated, in contravention of treaty obligations. So what's breaking a promise compared with violating a treaty?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #30 May 28, 2004 true, but while we are the lapdog poodle of the US, as much as we can be put on the ground and walked over whenever the need arises, i think political suicide is what comes to mind if the US decided to break a promise they made to the highest rung of the political ladder over here. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #31 May 28, 2004 "i think political suicide is what comes to mind if the US decided to break a promise they made to the highest rung of the political ladder over here." I wouldn't be too sure about that, look at the way Tony flip flopped over who had power of veto over our troops in Iraq after the end of june..... -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #32 May 28, 2004 i thought he said the Iraqi sovereign govt will have power to veto Allied troops after June 30th? Has this changed? (had a quick look on bbc today and couldn't find anything other than: "UK Prime Minister Tony Blair says that after the transfer of power on 30 June, Iraq's interim government will have a veto on operations by coalition troops. . " from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3745611.stm edited for bad link "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #33 May 28, 2004 I even quoted the same line a coupleof days ago. Over the veto thing, I just caught it on the radio news last night. Blair was saying that the Iraqi administration would not necessarliy have a veto over operations. The US military will certainly not allow such a veto, but Powell is playing the whole thing down as no big deal. edit hints at the bottom of this article...... "The prime minister also denied suggestions on Wednesday of splits between London and Washington over whether the new Iraqi government would be able to veto US and British troop operations after the handover." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3752773.stm-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 May 28, 2004 QuoteYea, I've tasted American beer! That's funny, but even when you try to be funny, you still can't say anything nice. It's good to be consistent. Come visit some more, you might like some of us despite your bias. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #35 May 28, 2004 Damn, you come across pretty insecure. You simply don't get the humour, its just British humor. Bit of friendly piss taking. If you did a seach on my posts you'd see that I'm not Anti American, just British I've loads of good American friends and enjoy visting America. Just because I think that whats been going on with GWB's War on 'Terror' is unacceptable doesn't make me Anti American.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 May 28, 2004 Damn, you come across anti-US and not proanything. In any case, it was still funny. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #37 May 28, 2004 Actualy it may suprisse you to find that I have American family'When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #38 May 28, 2004 I heard on the news this morning that the UK has already formally stated that Hamza will not be extridited unless we pledge not to pursue to the death penalty. Why the f*ck do you guys care what Hamza's fate is? What's more, if his citizenship is not stripped, you get to keep him. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #39 May 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteYea, I've tasted American beer! That's funny, but even when you try to be funny, you still can't say anything nice. It's good to be consistent. Come visit some more, you might like some of us despite your bias. Eh? Most Americans I know would say: "Yea, I've tasted American beer!"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #40 May 28, 2004 QuoteEh? Most Americans I know would say: "Yea, I've tasted American beer!" Only the one time, then when the effects of that assault on my taste buds and stomache wore off, I went right back to mixed drinks where I belong. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #41 May 28, 2004 QuoteQuoteEh? Most Americans I know would say: "Yea, I've tasted American beer!" Only the one time, then when the effects of that assault on my taste buds and stomache wore off, I went right back to mixed drinks where I belong. LOL now he gets it "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #42 May 29, 2004 Quote So, now you like that we have Camp X-Ray set up at Guantanamo? Hey I always liked Camp X-ray! Its those filthy liberals who complained... How can the UK detainees there claim to be innocent of anything? Its not like they were in Afghanistan delivering emergency supplies of milk and cookies!*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #43 May 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteI wanna go TDY there. I'll go up to him eating a pork & Bacon sandwich, and drinking a beer, and belch loudly in his face... Some people here call that 'torture' Only if it gets on film - if it isn't on video... it never happened!*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #44 May 29, 2004 QuoteYea, I've tasted American beer! Dude, You haven't tried This One... I will be more than happy to ship you a bottle - prepare to be floored... mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #45 June 1, 2004 QuoteBritish humor Isn't that an oxymoron? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
