pajarito 0 #201 June 2, 2004 That looks very much like a SA-7. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #202 June 2, 2004 Nobody can say with certainty what may or may not have happened.....that guy walking back across the field is shot....where was his weapon...wher was the immediate threat fom him right there..? The video clearly demonstrates the Apache and its crews ability to completely detroy a traget very very quickly.......so why so hasty to waste man no. 1 oh yeah...sorry he was a potential threat.. That being said....whether man 2 is 'trying' to wave off or whether hes's going for a weapon.....killing no. 1 provoked his reaction Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #203 June 2, 2004 Wow...the naivety of these statements is almost as impressive as the video itself. I just don't know how to respond sometimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #204 June 2, 2004 It's hopeless. I give up. It's clear you're just being obtuse for the sake of it.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #205 June 2, 2004 the video shows people being killed man....no matter how you cut it, no matter who they are.....the one statement thats not appropriate is 'its impressive' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #206 June 2, 2004 See?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #207 June 2, 2004 sorry you feel that way....Im not but do appreciate your debate....at least you are able to do that without taking it to personals.....a la Ron Do appreciate your post of the raw vid...definately shows a diffrent take on it all...thats given up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #208 June 2, 2004 Quote the video shows people being killed man....no matter how you cut it, no matter who they are.....the one statement thats not appropriate is 'its impressive' Oh...however horrible war is, there is no denying the skillful "art" of war. And we're good at it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #209 June 2, 2004 30mm rounds ? God knows how many per second...? Targets with a 2-4M radius at short distance Not exactly skill or art ...is it? Certainly not when it means ripping somebody apart... Means to an end...maybe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #210 June 2, 2004 Quote so why so hasty Hasty? There is a full 2min of video before they fire a shot... from the audio, Clearance to engage went at least two levels up... did not seem hasty to me. J JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #211 June 2, 2004 Did you listen to the audio...they were discussing what they were doing, discussing whether they had clearance to fire. The decision to fire was made when the 2nd guy killed was moving toward the weapon. At that point, they were out of range. They then got in range and fired upon the first target they acquired. Why so hasty on #1, he was the one in the sites when clearance came to fire. They should lose acquisition of that target to go after another? That would be stupid. There's a target in your sites, take him out, neutralize that threat, go after the next. They then proceeded to make a decision about each individual and each trucks potential threat before firing. Quote killing no. 1 provoked his reaction So it would have been better to wait for them to kill our helicoptor before we reacted? Come on, man. I wasn't in the military, and I'm not in favor of us being there in the first place. But this was 100% legit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #212 June 2, 2004 Some Euros will simply do anything they can to make the US look bad. We're the little brother that grew up to the ability to kick it's parents' and siblings' asses and not have to apologize about it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #213 June 2, 2004 ? this type of attitude...unfortunatly is just so wrong......me ...and 'Brits' just dont think like that at all Quote Some Euros will simply do anything they can to make the US look bad Id say most of the time you do a pretty good job on your lonesome at that one Truth be told....if anything we just like to sit back, watch and laugh.. Comments like that make me glad Im a Brit.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #214 June 2, 2004 Quote ? this type of attitude...unfortunatly is just so wrong......me ...and 'Brits' just dont think like that at all...... Bull, you guys maintain one of the most professional armies in the world. Like us, they don't intend to die for their country.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #215 June 2, 2004 I think you have misinterpreted my last post......read back a few to explain the context in which that statement quoted ..was posted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #216 June 2, 2004 Quote 30mm rounds ? God knows how many per second...? Targets with a 2-4M radius at short distance Not exactly skill or art ...is it? Certainly not when it means ripping somebody apart... Means to an end...maybe. They killed exactly who they wanted to. They destroyed exactly which vehicles they wanted to. None of our guys died in the process. I call that success! They're helicopter pilots. What do you expect them to do? Lean out the side with their side arms and take pot shots at them? Would that make it fair considering the enemy is brandishing a surface-to-air missile? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #217 June 2, 2004 you see...how its starts ? on either side Originally it was an object... Then its a 'probably weapon' now its confirmed as a Surface to Air Missile..?? you are as 'blinkered' as you'll believe I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #218 June 2, 2004 Quote Quote the video shows people being killed man....no matter how you cut it, no matter who they are.....the one statement thats not appropriate is 'its impressive' Oh...however horrible war is, there is no denying the skillful "art" of war. And we're good at it! This is what really bugs me. You revel in it. You actively enjoy thinking about how capable you are (or the US is) at killing people. It seems that you define a large part of yourself, introspectively or otherwise, as being "good" at killing. To me, that's sociopathic at best, and inhuman at worst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #219 June 2, 2004 Does this look familiar? With the cover in the back swinging open? I'm just saying that's what it looks like to me in the video. I guess the pilots thought the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #220 June 2, 2004 you know what that looks like to me in llow light....more than 20M away A metallic tube Could be a Launcher....could be a post.....depends how clearly you see it... Im sure your chaps in the Apache would have apprecaited a close up , in the light and profiled picture like that which you have posted But I do hear the point you are trying to make Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #221 June 2, 2004 Quote This is what really bugs me. You revel in it. You actively enjoy thinking about how capable you are (or the US is) at killing people. It seems that you define a large part of yourself, introspectively or otherwise, as being "good" at killing. To me, that's sociopathic at best, and inhuman at worst. The better I am at my job, the safer you are back here and the less of our guys get killed over there. It's a terrible thing but there is a lot of satisfaction in doing your job well. Especially, when your friend's lives are on the line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #222 June 2, 2004 Quote you know what that looks like to me A metallic tube.... Could be a Launcher....could be a post.....depends how clearly you see it... Im sure your chaps in the Apache would have apprecaited a close up , in the light and profiled picture like that what you have posted But I do hear the point you are trying to make I'm sure that's EXACTLY what that looks like to you and many others here. I know, because I've seen them up close. They're all over the place over there. Those pilots have trained eyes to detect them from afar. That's part of their job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #223 June 2, 2004 Killing anybody shouldnt be a 'satisfying' task I doubt you will see that posted on many Uncle Sam needs you posters. Doing what is necessary to protect your country is justifiable. Killing shouldnt be 'satisfying' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #224 June 2, 2004 so now the pilots knew it was a SA-7?? deeper and deeper you go....... well done. If we keep going Im sure we can get to a point whereby they fired at the Apache...who waited until he thought they 'really ' meant it before he opened fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #225 June 2, 2004 I think...with respect...we are done here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
