PhillyKev 0 #1 May 24, 2004 New UN Resolution Gives Broad Powers to U.S. Troops The United States and Britain asked U.N. members on Monday to endorse a hand-over of power to a new Iraqi interim government but proposed U.S. troops could "take all measures" to keep order. The draft U.N. Security Council resolution, which asks for support for a U.S.-led multinational force, however, gives no date for the withdrawal of foreign troops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #2 May 24, 2004 QuoteThe United States and Britain asked U.N. members on Monday to endorse a hand-over of power to a new Iraqi interim government but proposed U.S. troops could "take all measures" to keep order. You would prefer disorder and chaos, while U.S. troops stand by and do nothing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #3 May 24, 2004 >You would prefer disorder and chaos, while U.S. troops stand by and do nothing? Just a little honesty would be a refreshing change. "We have decided not to hand over sovereignty until we can ensure order." Instead they will pretend to hand over control while nothing changes. Iraqis aren't stupid. If you lie to them enough they're going to start thinking the new boss isn't much different than the old boss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #4 May 24, 2004 Quote>You would prefer disorder and chaos, while U.S. troops stand by and do nothing? Just a little honesty would be a refreshing change. "We have decided not to hand over sovereignty until we can ensure order." Instead they will pretend to hand over control while nothing changes. Iraqis aren't stupid. If you lie to them enough they're going to start thinking the new boss isn't much different than the old boss. Not true. We have also already demonstrated that an insurgency movement can be ongoing and successful. Point being is that I think they will be more willing to take action against those that they consider "oppressors". That would be us, by the way."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #5 May 25, 2004 exerpt another article on yahoo, from the AFP. site HERE QuoteBritain, the main US ally in the Iraq war, said the proposed UN resolution pledged a full transfer of sovereignty and a key UN role in Iraq. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said in Brussels that the resolution spells out "very categorically" that the return to self-rule would take place on June 30. It outlined the US-led multinational force would remain in Iraq after June 30 "with the consent, in consultation and in partnership" with the still-unformed caretaker Iraqi government, said Britain's ambassador to the UN Emyr Jones Parry. German ambassador Gunter Pleuger said the text provided for an initial one-year mandate for the force, but that a review could be called earlier by the Iraqi government. After the bruising battle at the UN in the run-up to the war last year, diplomats there sounded an upbeat note on Monday, underlining that the previous weeks of meetings had brought the 15-nation Security Council to a broad consensus. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #6 May 25, 2004 QuoteIt outlined the US-led multinational force would remain in Iraq after June 30 "with the consent, in consultation and in partnership" with the still-unformed caretaker Iraqi government, So, they're saying that they're going to turn over power to a gov't body that they know nothing about, except that they will consent to our troops remaining there. Tell me how they can make that claim unless the intent is to install a puppet gov't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #7 May 25, 2004 As far as I understand it Kev, the puppets will be in place till january next year, after that the new democratically elected administration will have the right, and power to expel any occupying forces. I might be wrong though.....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 644 #8 May 25, 2004 France has asked for clarification on who the coalition has to answer to, and what the plans are if they are asked to leave. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3745611.stm well I hope this time around my government (UK) listens to the French.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 May 25, 2004 Clarification here.. "It will be up to the Iraqi government and its people to decide whether the troops stay or not". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3745643.stm Listen to the French? Aye that will be the day, listen to the majority opinion of the security council, possibly. Mind you, Alawi seems confused... "Dr Alawi said he expected an indigenous Iraqi security force to be in place by the end of the year and certainly before the planned elections of next January." Plenty of time between the end of the year and next January! For what its worth I reckon the troops will slowly change hats from cammo to blue ones, but will stay for a while yet.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 644 #10 May 25, 2004 yes he does seem confused. But then the Falluja aproach of hand the control over to the Baath party general's in old style uniforms - seemed to work quite well. Heck if they put Saddam back in they don't even need elections and we can get all our troops out before it obscures all the upcomming elections. I mean Saddam's been through a prison rehab program right?Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #11 May 25, 2004 it is a temporary gvmntnot a "puppet govnmnt", but it is the first step in the democracy. The power will go to the iraqi govrnmt, but the policing will be the military. Do you think the Iraqi military is up to the task yet? Have you read the interm constitution? Did you expect on June 30th we would leave and let them fend for themselves? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #12 May 25, 2004 "but it is the first step in the democracy." I'd take you to task about the appointment of an unelected body, by an occupying foreign nation, as being the first step to a democracy. But I'd agree with you that it is a necessary step on the road to a democracy, so its all good.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #13 May 25, 2004 I know it doesn't seem it, but this Unelected body has to be there in order to oversee the real elections which will happen in the near future. Consider the USA. Our founding fathers weren't exactly elected either. But they were still able to draw up a democratic constitution which called for the election of the governing bodies. There had to be unelected leaders in the beginning. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #14 May 25, 2004 Quoteit is a temporary gvmntnot a "puppet govnmnt", but it is the first step in the democracy. The power will go to the iraqi govrnmt, but the policing will be the military. Do you think the Iraqi military is up to the task yet? Have you read the interm constitution? Did you expect on June 30th we would leave and let them fend for themselves? The USSR used to claim that the governments of Poland, Hungary etc. were not puppet governments. Wasn't true then, either.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #15 May 25, 2004 QuoteI know it doesn't seem it, but this Unelected body has to be there in order to oversee the real elections which will happen in the near future. Consider the USA. Our founding fathers weren't exactly elected either. But they were still able to draw up a democratic constitution which called for the election of the governing bodies. There had to be unelected leaders in the beginning. Chris While the unelected founding fathers were doing this, did they have the world's most powerful military power occupying their country, or were they truly masters in their own land?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #16 May 25, 2004 What are you suggesting? We leave Iraq on June 30th? HAHAHAHA are you kidding me? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #17 May 25, 2004 QuoteWhat are you suggesting? We leave Iraq on June 30th? HAHAHAHA are you kidding me? No, I'm suggesting you recognize a puppet government when there's one in plain sight. Did you forget what you wrote already?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #18 May 25, 2004 No my memory is still good... I recall it being a "Temporary" government :-) And how does that relate to the us military providing as much security as they can? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #19 May 25, 2004 QuoteNo my memory is still good... I recall it being a "Temporary" government :-) And how does that relate to the us military providing as much security as they can? Read what has already been written, then we won't have to write it all again.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #20 May 25, 2004 Comparing the USSR to the USA is about the same as comparing Hitler to Bush.... A childish and weak arguement meant to distract people from the facts. So you are saying because the USSR Lied that means the USA must be lying too. How did ever become a professor with logic like that? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #21 May 25, 2004 No one has said we should turn over complete sovereignty to Iraq on June 30th. Except GWB. Those are the words he uses, but it's plain to see that's not going to happen. Do we need to remain there? Yes, now that we created this mess, we do. Are we giving them sovereignty? Not really. Again, how can you guarantee that the independent, sovereign gov't will agree to certain condtions, when you don't know what that government looks like? The only way you can make that claim is if you already know that there won't be a gov't put in place that doesn't agree with our plans. That doesn't sould like self governing and independent to me. Once again, not saying that we should just turn over the reigns. But when will this gov't stop lying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #22 May 25, 2004 QuoteComparing the USSR to the USA is about the same as comparing Hitler to Bush.... A childish and weak arguement meant to distract people from the facts. So you are saying because the USSR Lied that means the USA must be lying too. I can give you a very long list of well documented lies untruths told by this administration. Quote How did ever become a professor with logic like that? By being skeptical. You should try it too, then you wouldn't be taken in by lies untruths .... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 May 25, 2004 Quote Consider the USA. Our founding fathers weren't exactly elected either. But they were still able to draw up a democratic constitution which called for the election of the governing bodies. It took us two trials, however, and it's fairly clear that their intent was to limit the voice of the people. We also didn't have two (or more) factions of people still fighting for control. Iraq is far closer to America in 1775 than 1787. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #24 May 25, 2004 QuoteThe USSR used to claim that the governments of Poland, Hungary etc. were not puppet governments. Wasn't true then, either. OK, professor, once again, how about you illustrate the similarities of the two situations, or give us some examples of how the two are comparable? I am so tired of insults and comparisons that are not explained, documented, or justified. You want to spout off about US being like cold war Soviets? BACK IT UP.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #25 May 25, 2004 QuoteWhile the unelected founding fathers were doing this, did they have the world's most powerful military power occupying their country? No. So what?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
