Bernstein Op Ed -- "History lesson: GOP must stop Bush"

[quade 4]

I was at the drop zone and missed this yesterday.

Interesting idea, but I don't think it's going to happen.

When Bernstein makes the comment "The equally relevant question is whether Republicans will, Pavlov-like, continue to defend their president with ideological and partisan reflex, or remember the example of principled predecessors who pursued truth at another dark moment." I think I already hear a bell being rung and know what the dogs are going to do.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-05-23-bush-edit_x.htm

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

So someone's opinion of "Bush's failure, or inability, to lead competently and honestly," is now to be ranked equivalent to high crimes and misdemeanors?

Ahem, "what is 'is?'"

"Monica-gate" and "Zipper-gate," I wouldn't care enough to push for impeachment, though the BJ and cigar were crimes in DC.

Perjury-gate, on the other hand, means a bit more to me. I guess that doesn't have a soundbite ring to it, since I can't remember it being called that on the evening news.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Gawain 0]

Funny, I recall similar ramblings coming from Rep. Pelosi (D-CA) just last week, which follow your quote in the next paragraph.

Yeah, that's a well balanced opinion....not.

So, drawing parallels of Iraq/Vietnam aren't enough, now we're stretching further to Watergate/Nixon and Iraqi prisons? Good grief you people on the left know no bounds.

I'm all for disagreement over policy, point of view, and politics - for that is a cherished right and firmly believe in it. However, the continued personal attacks on our President like this are un-American, and are unpatriotic.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[quade 4]

Not to be too flip, but what about Op Ed don't you understand?

It's not supposed to be "fair and balanced" any more than Rush, O'Reilly or Hannity.

It's simply a single person's analysis and opinion. BTW, if there are two people on the planet qualified to write an Op Ed comparing GWB to Nixon one would be Bob Woodward and the other is Carl Bernstein. Not only would it be appropriate -- I kinda think it's expected.

Don't you?

Lemme put it another way . . . wouldn't it be kind of naive to think they wouldn't draw the comparison?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Not to be too flip, but what about Op Ed don't you understand?

It's not supposed to be "fair and balanced" any more than Rush, O'Reilly or Hannity.

It's simply a single person's analysis and opinion.

I understand that, I just can't remember when someone started parrot-ing a politician so soon. Pelosi's a loud mouth for sure, but she's in the same boat as what Bernstein perceives of GOP. These attacks are all they have left because they're losing the battle of ideas.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,116]

>However, the continued personal attacks on our President like this
>are un-American, and are unpatriotic.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

[Gawain 0]

Quote

>However, the continued personal attacks on our President like this
>are un-American, and are unpatriotic.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

That's not what I said or meant, and that's not what Roosevelt said either (in context of my message), Bill. Criticizing the President's policies, objectives, initiatives, actions are one thing, abandoning the "battle of ideas" and attacking the man does undermine the US as a whole.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[quade 4]

Quote

Criticizing the President's policies, objectives, initiatives, actions are one thing, abandoning the "battle of ideas" and attacking the man does undermine the US as a whole.

But isn't "Criticizing the President's policies, objectives, initiatives, actions . . . " exactly what Bernstein does in his Op Ed piece?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

Quote

>However, the continued personal attacks on our President like this
>are un-American, and are unpatriotic.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

That's not what I said or meant, and that's not what Roosevelt said either (in context of my message), Bill. Criticizing the President's policies, objectives, initiatives, actions are one thing, abandoning the "battle of ideas" and attacking the man does undermine the US as a whole.

This just about sums it up nicely:

"Today, the United States is confronted by another ill-considered war, conceived in ideological zeal and pursued with contempt for truth, disregard of history and an arrogant assertion of American power that has stunned and alienated much of the world, including traditional allies. At a juncture in history when the United States needed a president to intelligently and forcefully lead a real international campaign against terrorism and its causes, Bush decided instead to unilaterally declare war on a totalitarian state that never represented a terrorist threat; to claim exemption from international law regarding the treatment of prisoners; to suspend constitutional guarantees even to non-combatants at home and abroad; and to ignore sound military advice from the only member of his Cabinet — Powell — with the most requisite experience. Instead of using America's moral authority to lead a great global cause, Bush squandered it."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

But isn't "Criticizing the President's policies, objectives, initiatives, actions . . . " exactly what Bernstein does in his Op Ed piece?

Quote

Today, the issue may not be high crimes and misdemeanors, but rather Bush's failure, or inability, to lead competently and honestly.

He then goes on to decry how "politics topples principles" when the very thesis of his piece is one-in-the-same.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[PhillyKev 0]

I don't see any personal attacks in this thread at all. Personal attacks against Bush would be saying he's stupid, or ugly, or evil, or retarded. This is criticism of his policies and actions. Blindly following poor leadership that if continued will damage the US domestically and internationally is un-American and un-Patriotic.

[billvon 3,116]

>abandoning the "battle of ideas" and attacking the man does
>undermine the US as a whole.

Agreed. But I have not seen much mainstream press claiming that Bush is a bigot, or an asshole, or a fool. His policies are foolish, he supports discrimination against gays, he made a poor decision in his choice of intelligence etc but those are attacks against his policies, not his person.

Of course you do see such attacks here, in about the same amounts as you see people launching personal attacks against Kerry and his wife.

[PhillyKev 0]

It's also odd to call disapproval of the job the president is doing un-American considering that's the opinion of 43% of Americans.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

>abandoning the "battle of ideas" and attacking the man does
>undermine the US as a whole.

Agreed. But I have not seen much mainstream press claiming that Bush is a bigot, or an asshole, or a fool. His policies are foolish, he supports discrimination against gays, he made a poor decision in his choice of intelligence etc but those are attacks against his policies, not his person.

That's just it, it doesn't take much mainstream press to start such movements. Just last Thursday, Pelosi laid the foundation that Bernstein is trying to take to the next level, which will in-turn fuel another "injection" by the politicians that can no longer compete on ideology (other than coming up with more "words").

That one blurb from Pelosi was covered by CNN, Fox from what I saw. Now, Bernstein in USA Today. In political speak, the foundation has been poured, just in time for the President to begin laying out the transition plan in Iraq.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[quade 4]

Quote

. . . just in time for the President to begin laying out the transition plan in Iraq.

Um, did he have a plan before this last week?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[benny 0]

How are they turning to personal attacks since they are losing the battle of ideas?

Most people think it's wrong to violate the Geneva convention and do such things as humiliating and abusing prisoners sexually.

Most people think it's wrong to circumvent the Constitution of the United States of America.

Alot of people disapprove of the way the President has handled the situation in Iraq.

Alot of people aren't happy with the way the President has handled the economy.

So what idea is it that the President is winning on? He can't fall back on 9/11 forever. Eventually times goes by and people forget how afraid they were. So, he was winning on fear for a while but fear is more an emotion than an idea.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[billvon 3,116]

>just in time for the President to begin laying out the transition plan in Iraq.

Not to worry! The US and the UK are lobbying the UN to ensure that US troops remain in ultimate control after the handover of "sovereignty." That should give us more time to actually come up with a transition plan.

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

Quote

>abandoning the "battle of ideas" and attacking the man does
>undermine the US as a whole.

Agreed. But I have not seen much mainstream press claiming that Bush is a bigot, or an asshole, or a fool. His policies are foolish, he supports discrimination against gays, he made a poor decision in his choice of intelligence etc but those are attacks against his policies, not his person.

That's just it, it doesn't take much mainstream press to start such movements. Just last Thursday, Pelosi laid the foundation that Bernstein is trying to take to the next level, which will in-turn fuel another "injection" by the politicians that can no longer compete on ideology (other than coming up with more "words").

That one blurb from Pelosi was covered by CNN, Fox from what I saw. Now, Bernstein in USA Today. In political speak, the foundation has been poured, just in time for the President to begin laying out the transition plan in Iraq.

Next you'll be telling us that voting against Bush will be unpatriotic.

The man is a liability to his own party, to the USA, and to the world.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Deuce 1]

Strangely enough, I think the comparison to Clinton would be more apropos.

Weren't the troops in Kosovo supposed to be out by Christmas, like 7 years ago?

It's going to be a disastrous mess regardless of who's in charge over here. We're all just more comfortable if "our guy" is in charge of the disaster.

[TheAnvil 0]

Berstein obviously has a different paradigm of foreign policy and politics than most. I posted a thread weeks ago asking about a GWB-Nixon comparison. If this is the best anyone can produce, no wonder I got no answer.

Billvon and Nightingale are far smarter than this Bernstein character could ever hope to be - they come up with better stuff here (as do you, Sir Quade, and others) on dz.com than is presented in this article. All the President's Men was much better founded. [For the record, I consider Nixon one of the worst Presidents ever from a DOMESTIC standpoint; foreign policy he's damn close to the top]

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[quade 4]

Quote

. . . this Bernstein character . . .

You crack me up.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TheAnvil 0]

Glad to be of service.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Macumba 0]

Hi