Worst Iraq prison abuse happened on one day, amid surge of violence...

[bodypilot90 0]

Fri May 21, 2:02 PM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!


By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Many of the worst abuses that have come to light from the Abu Ghraib prison happened on a single November day amid a flare of insurgent violence in Iraq (news - web sites), the deaths of many U.S. soldiers and a breakdown of the American guards' command structure.








Nov. 8 was the day U.S. guards took most of the infamous photographs: soldiers mugging in front of a pile of naked, hooded Iraqis, prisoners forced to perform or simulate sex acts, a hooded prisoner in a scarecrow-like pose with wires attached to him.


It was unclear Friday whether most or all of the new pictures and video published by The Washington Post depicted events on Nov. 8. At least one photo, showing Spc. Charles Graner Jr. with his arm cocked as if to punch a prisoner, is described in military court documents as having been taken that day.


When Spc. Jeremy C. Sivits tearfully pleaded guilty Wednesday to abusing prisoners, he described fellow soldiers committing an escalating series of abuses on eight prisoners that included stamping on their toes and fingers and punching one man hard enough to knock him out.


Sivits is likely to testify about the events of Nov. 8 at courts-martial for other soldiers charged with abuse. Three of them declined to enter pleas at hearings Wednesday: Sgt. Javal Davis, Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick II and Graner.


The abuse came during Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and reflection. The abused Iraqis, Sivits said, had been suspected of taking part in a prison riot that day. They were held at Abu Ghraib on suspicion of common crimes, not attacks on U.S. forces, said Col. Marc Warren, the top legal adviser to Iraqi commander Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez.


The day of abuse — a Saturday — capped what had been the worst week for U.S. troops in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion. Nearly three dozen had been killed in a surge of attacks that left some other soldiers frustrated and frightened. Insurgents had attacked the Abu Ghraib prison and other U.S. bases in the area with mortars several times in previous weeks.


The day before, insurgents had downed a Black Hawk helicopter with a rocket-propelled grenade near Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s hometown of Tikrit, killing six. Sixteen soldiers had died five days earlier when a shoulder-fired missile destroyed a Chinook transport helicopter near the flashpoint city of Fallujah.


The International Red Cross temporarily pulled out of Iraq on Nov. 8 because of the violence, which also had included a deadly car bomb outside the aid group's Baghdad headquarters on Oct. 27.


Three Iraqi prisoners escaped in the four days before Nov. 8 — and an additional half-dozen detainees escaped on that day, according to the military's internal report prepared by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba.


The pressure was on to get information from prisoners to help stop the attacks.


"We've been working very hard to increase our intelligence capacity here," Sanchez told reporters in Iraq on Nov. 11. "We are not where we want to be yet."


Several accused soldiers have told investigators that military and civilian intelligence officers asked them to scare and humiliate the prisoners before they were questioned.


"The orders came directly from the intelligence community, to soften up the detainees so that intelligence information could be gathered to save the lives of soldiers in the field," said Paul Bergrin, a lawyer for Davis.


Using guards to help interrogators "set the conditions" for questioning had been one tactic recommended by Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller in September. Miller, then the commander of the Guantanamo Bay prison camp for terrorism suspects, toured U.S. prisons in Iraq and recommended several changes in tactics to Sanchez.


Troops in Iraq adopted many of Miller's suggested approaches, military officials have said, after toning them down because some would have violated the Geneva Conventions, which apply to prisoners in Iraq. U.S. officials have said those rules did not apply to detainees at Guantanamo.


Sanchez told a Senate panel Wednesday that he never approved any tactics harsher than keeping prisoners in isolation. And Miller testified that he never meant for military guards to abuse detainees, only to tell interrogators their observations of the prisoners.


Miller now oversees the military detention facilities in Iraq. Sanchez announced last week that he would no longer even consider requests for harsh treatment of detainees other than isolation or segregation.

After Miller's visit in September, the military brought in Maj. Gen. Donald Ryder in October to survey prison camps and make more suggestions. Ryder issued his report and left Iraq just three days before Nov. 8.

Ryder opposed Miller's recommendation that military police be used to help set the stage for interrogations. He also urged officers to give more training to prison guards, which was never done.

Lack of training was one of many leadership problems with the Army Reserve unit that provided the guards at Abu Ghraib, according to the report by Gen. Taguba. He described a unit in which discipline had broken down to the point that soldiers were writing poems on their helmets and wandering around in civilian clothes carrying weapons.

Two days after the Nov. 8 spasm of abuse, the general in charge of the MPs gave written reprimands to two of the unit's leaders for failing to correct security lapses at Abu Ghraib. Taguba recommended further disciplinary action against the two officers — Lt. Col. Jerry Phillabaum and Maj. David DiNenna. It is unclear if that has happened; they have not been criminally charged.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&u=/ap/20040521/ap_on_re_us/prisoner_abuse_one_day_1&printer=1

[FrancoR 0]

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They were held at Abu Ghraib on suspicion of common crimes, not attacks on U.S. forces, said Col. Marc Warren, the top legal adviser to Iraqi commander Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez.

further down the article

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The pressure was on to get information from prisoners to help stop the attacks.

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[bodypilot90 0]

My point seems like it wasn't widespread or common.
not as common as the abuse of the iraqi's from france and germany in the the UN's for food program. would I rather not eat for weeks or wear ladies underwear on my head? hmmmmm

[PhillyKev 0]

The taking of pictures may not have been as widespread and common as the media is making it out to be. But the Red Cross complaints about abuse began long before Nov. 8 and continued well after.

[freeflydrew 0]

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My point seems like it wasn't widespread or common.
not as common as the abuse of the iraqi's from france and germany in the the UN's for food program.

Wow, that's quite an assumption considering that they've just started an investigation in the oil for food program... Perhaps you know someone in the OIP? Cause my girlfriend worked in the Oil For Food Program and she's never mentioned France and Germany's obvious participation in the scandal!

"Recent evidence of torture and ill-treatment by Coalition Forces in Iraqi prisons echo the frequent reports of human rights violations received by Amnesty International during the past year. Urge the US and UK authorities to support a thorough, independent and public investigation; to hold accountable all who have committed acts of torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, and also those who have contributed to a command culture that condones such abuses; and to ensure that all Coalition Forces know that such violations will not be tolerated"
amnesty.org

Doesn't sound like it was one day...

[bodypilot90 0]

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to support a thorough, independent and public investigation

like we want to UN to do and yet they refuse.

[freeflydrew 0]

WOW DUDE! WHo knows what news sites you read, but you are clearly confused as to the current state of the independant investigation! Let's all research a little before we post things that are probably figments of our imagination...

From the UN News site:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=10811&Cr=iraq&Cr1=oil

Independent panel has begun inquiry into UN's Oil-for-Food, chairman says

Paul Volcker briefs press on panel's work
20 May 2004 – Work has begun by an independent panel investigating the United Nations Oil-for-Food programme for Iraq, and its focus is to "get after" allegations of corruption and misconduct within the UN itself and, more broadly, the question of possible maladministration of the humanitarian operation, its Chairman said today.

In the event of maladministration, questions related to why that maladministration occurred, where responsibility for it lay, and what lessons learned could be drawn would also be addressed, Paul A. Volcker told a press briefing at UN Headquarters in New York.

The longest and most difficult aspect of the investigation by the Independent Inquiry Committee (IIC) would relate to what went on in Iraq itself in terms of contractors, overcharging and undercharging, kickbacks and smuggling, "which is peripheral to our investigation but I don't think we can help but touch upon it," he added.

Mr. Volcker, a former Chairman of the Board of Governors of the United States Federal Reserve System, stressed it was crucial for the panel to establish a degree of control over the very important records held in Iraq, if its investigation was to be satisfactory.

A team had been sent to Baghdad to make contact with the Bureau of the Supreme Auditor, which had responsibility for collecting and consolidating those records. That team would explore ways of achieving and maintaining sufficient influence over and accessibility to those records.

The Oil-for-Food programme began operating in 1996. Under its terms, sanctions-bound Iraq was allowed to use a portion of its oil revenues to purchase humanitarian relief. The effort was monitored by the Security Council "661" committee, which included representatives from all 15 countries on the Council.

Until its termination in November 2003, the programme was the largest-ever, in financial terms, administrated by the UN. It oversaw the delivery of some $39 billion worth of humanitarian assistance to about 22 million people, many of whom were largely dependent on outside aid to survive since normal economic activity was severely constrained by sanctions imposed after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=10662&Cr=iraq&Cr1=oil

Annan reaffirms UN's support for probe of Iraq Oil-for-Food allegations

Paul A. Volcker
7 May 2004 – Secretary-General Kofi Annan has reaffirmed that the United Nations will fully support the work of an independent panel he commissioned to examine allegations of corruption surrounding the UN Oil-for-Food programme for Iraq.

UN spokesman Fred Eckhard told reporters today in New York that the Secretary-General welcomed a statement issued by panel chairman Paul Volcker, former head of the United States Federal Reserve Board. Mr. Annan "fully accepts the arrangements set out in that statement," Mr. Eckhard said.

In his statement yesterday, Mr. Volcker said that, at his request, the Secretary-General had taken the necessary steps to ensure that all UN staff cooperate fully with the investigation and that all relevant documents are secured solely for the committee's use, according to the spokesman.

Mr. Volcker also said that as the investigation proceeds, and as the committee arrives at an understanding of the substance and scope of the relevant documentation, including material in Baghdad, it will consider appropriate disclosure.

Mr. Eckhard said the Secretary-General assured the inquiry of the full cooperation of all UN staff. "He earnestly hopes that the inquiry will reveal the full truth about the management of the programme, and repeats his undertaking to waive the immunity of any official found by the inquiry to have broken the law," he said.

The UN Oil-for-Food programme began operating in 1996 and allowed Iraq to use a portion of its oil revenues to purchase humanitarian relief. The effort was monitored by the Security Council "661" committee, which included representatives from all 15 countries on the Council.

Until its termination in November 2003, the Programme oversaw the delivery of some $39 billion worth of humanitarian assistance to roughly 25 million people, many of whom were largely dependent on outside aid to survive since normal economic activity was severely constrained by sanctions imposed after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990.


It's really something when someone tries to knock a global organization responsible for many, many positive things, including feeding starving people around the world! Perhaps actually READING the news would be a good idea before you decide to post!

[kallend 2,174]

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WOW DUDE! WHo knows what news sites you read, but you are clearly confused as to the current state of the independant investigation! Let's all research a little before we post things that are probably figments of our imagination...

Give him a break. Ann Coulter hasn't yet had time to spin it properly for the acolytes so their confusion is understandable.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TypicalFish 0]

Mmmmmmmmmmm... Annnne Coulllter...

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[Kennedy 0]

This would be the UN that set up a semi independant panel, then sent letters to all contractors to remind them of "contractual confidentiality," also known as shut up and don't give the investigators anything, right?

Yeah, thought so.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[PhillyKev 0]

I was going to make a comment about Bush doing the same thing with his medicaide plan and ordering the chair not to reveal the true costs until after congress voted, but that's off topic.

[billvon 3,131]

>My point seems like it wasn't widespread or common.

You are making excuses for people who raped young boys, tortured men and women, and killed prisoners? It was systematic abuse to achieve an end (information) that involved at least dozens of people and three prisons. We can have exactly one reaction to this if we are to claim we are better than Hussein - that such behavior is atrocious and completely unacceptable, and it will be eliminated.

[Gawain 0]

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WOW DUDE! WHo knows what news sites you read, but you are clearly confused as to the current state of the independant investigation! Let's all research a little before we post things that are probably figments of our imagination...

What is missing from a lot of coverage of this, is that Volcker has no subpoena powers what-so-ever. As he tries to dig deeper, his role will be forced into that of a paper tiger.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[freeflydrew 0]

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This would be the UN that set up a semi independant panel, then sent letters to all contractors to remind them of "contractual confidentiality," also known as shut up and don't give the investigators anything, right?

Yeah, thought so.

Yeah, thought so?... How about some quotes and a source, so this discussion stays along the right path...

And just so it's clear, the corruption in the OIP (Oil for food program) did not occur at the top level of the UN... It occurred within the lower levels of administration, and Benin Sevan (the Head of the OIP) and Kofi Annan (Head of the UN) knew nothing about it. That is why they support the independent investigation, and want to know where the corruption occurred.

So let's see some quotes here OK?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Quote

This would be the UN that set up a semi independant panel, then sent letters to all contractors to remind them of "contractual confidentiality," also known as shut up and don't give the investigators anything, right?

Yeah, thought so.

Yeah, thought so?... How about some quotes and a source, so this discussion stays along the right path...

And just so it's clear, the corruption in the OIP (Oil for food program) did not occur at the top level of the UN... It occurred within the lower levels of administration, and Benin Sevan (the Head of the OIP) and Kofi Annan (Head of the UN) knew nothing about it. That is why they support the independent investigation, and want to know where the corruption occurred.

So let's see some quotes here OK?

Well I guess we don't need Volcker. You seem to know exactly what happened.

[freeflydrew 0]

that's pretty funny...

[Kennedy 0]

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And just so it's clear, the corruption in the OIP (Oil for food program) did not occur at the top level of the UN... It occurred within the lower levels of administration, and Benin Sevan (the Head of the OIP) and Kofi Annan (Head of the UN) knew nothing about it. That is why they support the independent investigation, and want to know where the corruption occurred.

So let's see some quotes here OK?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119116,00.html

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The office of the senior U.N. official in charge of the scandal-plagued Iraqi oil-for-food (search) program has sent letters to companies involved in the program telling them they should not hand over any documents or information without first clearing it with the United Nations.

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All three of these letters came from Sevan, who ran the oil-for-food program and who is accused of personally profiting $3.5 million through alleged illegal oil transactions.

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The Volcker panel doesn't have subpoena authority and will rely on voluntary cooperation from governments, U.N. staff, members of Saddam's former government and current Iraqi leaders. They claim they have evidence that dozens of people, including top U.N. officials, took kickbacks from the $67 billion oil-for-food program.

So Benin Sevan knew nothing about it, but is accused of coming home with $3.5 million....

There are a few quotes and sources from me. It's your turn.
Why don't you share with us your crystal ball?

ps - if Annan and Sevan really want this panel to accomplish anything, why doesn't Volcker have the power of sub poena?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[bodypilot90 0]

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And just so it's clear, the corruption in the OIP (Oil for food program) did not occur at the top level of the UN... It occurred within the lower levels of administration

well maybe his son didn't know but i'm willing to bet he did

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One of the letters was sent to a company called Cotecna Inspection S.A. (search), which for five years had the job of authenticating all goods being shipped into Iraq under the oil-for-food program.

It's also the company that once employed the son of U.N. Secretary-General

and of course this

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Both letters — as well as a third one made public earlier this week to Saybolt Corp. (search), an inspection agency hired by the United Nations to monitor the loading of Iraqi oil — remind the companies of their contractual confidentiality agreements. For example, the April 2 Cotecna letter says all documents and data "shall be the property of the United Nations, shall be treated as confidential and shall be delivered only to United Nations authorized officials."

All three of these letters came from Sevan, who ran the oil-for-food program and who is accused of personally profiting $3.5 million through alleged illegal oil transactions

hmmmm sounds like someone has something to hide eh?

[freeflydrew 0]

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There are a few quotes and sources from me. It's your turn.
Why don't you share with us your crystal ball?

ps - if Annan and Sevan really want this panel to accomplish anything, why doesn't Volcker have the power of sub poena?

"My Crystal Ball" is my girlfriend who worked directly under Sevan... Sounded scarcistic though... Oh yeah, also the UN News Center, which I clearly quoted above! If I read Fox "news" I guess i would have seen that article. I would definitely look into more news sites than just Fox if you want to be objective about what you're reading...

[Kennedy 0]

Yeah, I'm sure every crooked bureaucrat tells everyone who works for him that he is skimming and taking kickbacks.

You are going to tell me about being objective, and yet you quote the very people under scrutiny. Come on, tell me you see the problm with that.

Fox was just the first news organization I found who mentioned the letters. What, everything by them is now automatically unsuited for discussion? I swear, you New Yorkers are something else.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[freeflydrew 0]

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Yeah, I'm sure every crooked bureaucrat tells everyone who works for him that he is skimming and taking kickbacks.

Maybe, or maybe it isn't occurring at the highest levels of the organization...

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You are going to tell me about being objective, and yet you quote the very people under scrutiny. Come on, tell me you see the problm with that.

I quoted the UN News Center, and paraphrased what my GF was told... I don't see any problem with that...

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Fox was just the first news organization I found who mentioned the letters. What, everything by them is now automatically unsuited for discussion? I swear, you New Yorkers are something else.

Are there other "News" sites that mention the letters?
New Yorkers are something else... I just said that you should look at more news sites to remain objective... Let's not get too personal with this discussion, ok I'm not going to start labeling/insulting people from Alabama.

On a side note, I read a couple of hours ago that Fox News is the Conservative equivelant of Al-Jazeera... it made me laugh
http://congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5907501&content_dir=ua_congressorg

[Kennedy 0]

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I quoted the UN News Center, and paraphrased what my GF was told... I don't see any problem with that...

So you quote the UN when UN officials are under investigation and find that reliable, but when the Pentagon speaks out on soldiers accused of misconduct, it's lies, damn lies, eh?

Tell me again about objectivity.

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Are there other "News" sites that mention the letters?

See attached.
Then see THIS LINK

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New Yorkers are something else...I'm not going to start labeling/insulting people from Alabama.

Feel free to knock these hicks all you like. I do. I'm Jersey, born and raised.


From the link you posted.
Tell me again about objectivity.

Quote

The Bush administration in its wheeling and dealing to find a workable U.N. resolution regarding the transfer of "sovereignity" to an Iraqi interim government, has agreed to relinquish a little more control than they'd like in exchange for immunity for U.S. troops accused of war crimes. It takes a lot of nerve for them to request what amounts to diplomatic immunity for 130,000 occupying troops especially in light of what we now know about the treatment of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of U.S. troops. What would possess them to flaunt their hypocrisy befory the U.N. and the international community as if they think no one will even notice? The answer is hubris and George Bush's psychotic, delusional illusions of grandeur and divine guidance. He's basically just a dim witted version of Adolph Hitler without the swastikas. He thinks he has a mandate from God to reshape the entire world according to some vision that even he is hard pressed to articulate. Millions of Americans are still in the dark about how this administration has decieved us thanks to a very effective propaganda machine and it's public outlet, FOX News, the conservative equivalent of Al Jazeera.
All of Bush's rhetoric about defeating terrorism and making America a safer place is just more propaganda and he knows it. His policies have put Americans more at risk of the wrath and retribution of terrorists and his failed policies have estranged us from those who used to be our allies. We have lost all credibility and respect in the world and it gets worse each day that the polls show so much support for this criminal president from the American people.
If Americans really want to strike a blow against terrorism we should arrest George Bush, his Vice President and at least half a dozen other of his evil minions and send them in handcuffs to the Hague to stand trial for their crimes against humanity and their wanton violations of international law. Nothing would send a more resolute message to the rest of the world that in America we mean what we say when we talk about justice, and we hold criminals accountable for their actions. Let's end the hypocrisy that breeds the rage and hatred towards us. Arrest George Bush and let the world court try him for his crimes.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[freeflydrew 0]

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...but when the Pentagon speaks out on soldiers accused of misconduct, it's lies, damn lies, eh?

I'm not sure what it is that you're referring to...

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Tell me again about objectivity.

You know, being objective... researching things before you make what seem to be conclusions... Look at things from all angles.

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Are there other "News" sites that mention the letters?

See attached.
Then see THIS LINK

[Kennedy 0]

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Why didn't you just post additional sources in the first place?... Fox "news" isn't exactly the end all be all of news media.

http://news.google.com/news?q=oil+for+food+sevan+letters&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn

Like I said, it was just the first one I found. It's not my fault you assumed that because it's on Fox it's tripe, or that you didn't bother to check for yourself whether or not other news outlets had carried the story.

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From the link you posted.
Tell me again about objectivity.

Millions of Americans are still in the dark about how this administration has decieved us thanks to a very effective propaganda machine and it's public outlet, FOX News, the conservative equivalent of Al Jazeera.

I'm sure any American not living in a cave is well aware of the Left's interpretation of GWB's motives and alleged misdeeds.

Honestly, how many people do you think really use FOXNews as their only source of information?

Finally, I must have missed the humor in the Fox/Al Jazeera comparison. Can you help me out, and maybe point out some similarities?

I saw a much funnier comparison of the LATimes editor to the
(ex)Iraqi (dis)Information Minister.
{of course, that also gave examples and supplied startling wit, rather than simply making a claim and expecting those who agree with you to believe it and discounting everyone else}

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[bodypilot90 0]

Quote

I saw a much funnier comparison of the LATimes editor to the
(ex)Iraqi (dis)Information Minister.
{of course, that also gave examples and supplied startling wit, rather than simply making a claim and expecting those who agree with you to believe it and discounting everyone else}

I had heard he got a job offer from the un