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piisfish

Fahrenheit 911

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I think Michael Moore is extremely creative, and I think he is 'right on' on many of his points. I also think he is 'way off' on others. Bowling for Columbine was great. I agree that Marylyn Manson is not to blame. I disagree that guns are. They also used propane tanks. Is Hank Hill and Strickland propane to blame? I think all of us are to blame. We live in a society that tells Jocks they are great and kids like the Trench Coat Mafia that they are losers and "fags". We are all guilty. It made me think of all the mean things that I did and that were done to me growing up. Kids are little mean bastards. Its sad and I dont know how to change it. Whats even more sad is that the Jocks are no more prone to a sucessful life than the nerds.

Farenheit 911 will have some good points, but I guarantee he will be stretching and spinning things ALOT. This film won because of its politics, which is ironic because the film bashes other politics.

I wish the world would quit trying to find someone to blame, and start trying to find someone to heal the world. We need healing, forgiveness and love, not blame and revenge.

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for someone with a name like "peaceful" - some of your posts have a lot of anger in them......... ;)



Yes, I suppose this may be true. Others have observed this as well. I can say only that peace is something to strive for; it does not always come easily; no person has it totally; I don't have it totally; and while I try to be at peace, personally, that does not mitigate my desire to sometimes enter a fray or animated thread.

And so it goes.

-
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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>I could post praise of Charlton Heston for winning his awards acting,
> in civil rights service in multiple areas, and wish him well while'
> bravely fighting a debilitating disease, without making any mention
> of ideology.

If the thread continued by talking about his various movies and his courage, then it could remain in Bonfire. If someone called him a fat, lying piece of shit it would quickly be moved to Speaker's Corner.



Would it be less offensive if I deleted the word "fat"? I know that such a condition may not be his fault, but the fault of the society that forced Big Macs down his throat, prevented him from exercising, and oppressed him psychologically.

Perhaps I should just call him a deceitful, lying, scumbag piece of shit.

Of course, then I'll have turds picketing outside my house complaining that I've degraded them by comparing them to Michael Moore.

-
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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Perhaps I should just call him a deceitful, lying, scumbag piece of shit.


-



Yes, he's really lucky the current administration makes him look so good.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>I could post praise of Charlton Heston for winning his awards acting,
> in civil rights service in multiple areas, and wish him well while'
> bravely fighting a debilitating disease, without making any mention
> of ideology.

If the thread continued by talking about his various movies and his courage, then it could remain in Bonfire. If someone called him a fat, lying piece of shit it would quickly be moved to Speaker's Corner.



Would it be less offensive if I deleted the word "fat"? I know that such a condition may not be his fault, but the fault of the society that forced Big Macs down his throat, prevented him from exercising, and oppressed him psychologically.

Perhaps I should just call him a deceitful, lying, scumbag piece of shit.

Of course, then I'll have turds picketing outside my house complaining that I've degraded them by comparing them to Michael Moore.


Amusing post, as usual. I'll venture to say it's voicing your strong disagreement or negative opinion about something that gets a thread moved here from there, not the exact choice of words or political (un)correctness.

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>Would it be less offensive if I deleted the word "fat"?

The issue is not what words you use. The issue is that a heated argument over politics or gun-rights issues belongs in speaker's corner, not bonfire. That's why we created this forum - so people could have heated political discussions, and people who have no desire to read such threads can chat without having to wade through the contentious threads.

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for someone with a name like "peaceful" - some of your posts have a lot of anger in them......... ;)



Yes, I suppose this may be true. Others have observed this as well. I can say only that peace is something to strive for; it does not always come easily; no person has it totally; I don't have it totally; and while I try to be at peace, personally, that does not mitigate my desire to sometimes enter a fray or animated thread.



Don't sweat it, many people think that "peace" only means an absense of conflict.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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Yes, I suppose this may be true. Others have observed this as well. I can say only that peace is something to strive for; it does not always come easily; no person has it totally; I don't have it totally; and while I try to be at peace, personally, that does not mitigate my desire to sometimes enter a fray or animated thread.



Good for you that you strive for peace, and you can still do so while entering and participating in a heated debate. However, I don't think calling people lying scumbags and fat sacks of shit (whether they're a non-DZ.commer or not) is the way to promote peace in yourself or others. Nor is the excessive use of the words "motherfucking" and "fucking" very conducive to presenting your arguments in a convincing, educated manner.

As Gawain said, don't sweat it--that seems to be your biggest obstacle, especially in regards to Michael Moore. Why does it matter to you so much that he uses film to tell his stories, and spins those stories radically to the left? It's obvious he has a political agenda that clearly doesn't gel with your political agenda. I'm sure there are right-wing filmmakers and storytellers out there who spin facts/statistics/whatever information to support their arguments, too.

If you want to argue the "documentary" point again, why don't you give most people the benefit of the doubt that they can tell the difference between a so-called documentary and an editorial piece? They don't need critics and film festivals to tell them what is classified as a documentary. Nor do they have to listen to art critics telling them that a crucifix in urine is art. Oh wait...but maybe most people are like you, and they believe whatever somebody tells them as long as it agrees with their political agendas.

So why get so angry? Is it because some of us have pretty much debunked most of your claims (well, at least the claims you read on some other guy's web site and seem to believe and have adopted blindly) in the Columbine thread? Got your feelings hurt? Or maybe something worse--your pride?

_Pm
__
"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

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In Reply To
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Perhaps I should just call him a deceitful, lying, scumbag piece of shit.


-

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Yes, he's really lucky the current administration makes him look so good.



And so starts the Bush bashing.....Why am I not surprized Kallend did it?

BTW Clinton got a hummer in the oval office, and thats one of the reasons OBL hates us.

Oh yeah, and Hitler....Don't know where that ties in, but maybe it will kill this thread? ;)
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Perhaps I should just call him a deceitful, lying, scumbag piece of shit.


-

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Yes, he's really lucky the current administration makes him look so good.



And so starts the Bush bashing.....Why am I not surprized Kallend did it?

BTW Clinton got a hummer in the oval office, and thats one of the reasons OBL hates us.

Oh yeah, and Hitler....Don't know where that ties in, but maybe it will kill this thread? ;)



If everyone that had a hummer in their office got fired, the unemployment rate would soar. A survey about 15 years ago reported that over 50% of white collar workers had sex in the office at least once.

Sometimes its good to be in the majority;)
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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TypicalFish is right, the balding, big bellied guy in the pic is Secret Service Police (not an agent). The uniforms provide building security and an "obvoius" security presence.

See the gun and two spare mags on his belt?
That's no every day run of the mill security guard!
(that's a security guard with federal LEO powers) :P
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

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As Gawain said, don't sweat it--that seems to be your biggest obstacle, especially in regards to Michael Moore. Why does it matter to you so much that he uses film to tell his stories, and spins those stories radically to the left?



Because they are palmed-off onto the public as though they are fact.

Because if it were not convincing people -- who then may very well vote for anti-gun candidates based on Moore's misinformation, distortions and lies -- it would just be some blowhard spouting off.

But it's not. Instead, I hear people at work chatting together about how good a movie Bowling for Columbine is, and I know that they are being misled, and are swallowing untruths whole. When people believe things that are false, and then make decisions (voting and otherwise) based on those falsehoods, that is a Bad Thing.



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If you want to argue the "documentary" point again, why don't you give most people the benefit of the doubt that they can tell the difference between a so-called documentary and an editorial piece?



I did, and then I heard at least three different people talking about "what a good movie that Bowling for Columbine is." And that disturbed me.

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So why get so angry? Is it because some of us have pretty much debunked most of your claims (well, at least the claims you read on some other guy's web site and seem to believe and have adopted blindly) in the Columbine thread? Got your feelings hurt? Or maybe something worse--your pride?




Could you clarify what you think you've debunked? I don't see it. The missile crap is the least of what I think is shady about Moore's movie. The more important things are the utter misrepresentation of Heston's actual speeches; the misrepresentation of the bank-rifle deal, and many others that you will find on various websites dedicated to debunking Moore's lies.

I care very little about whether the stupid Titan rockets were made in Littleton. That is a very minor point in a maelstrom of larger lies.

-
-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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Because they are palmed-off onto the public as though they are fact.

Because if it were not convincing people -- who then may very well vote for anti-gun candidates based on Moore's misinformation, distortions and lies -- it would just be some blowhard spouting off.



You really think people vote in America? Bwahahahaha! Just kidding (or did that piss you off, too?).

Sooo...if some successful, popular, right-wing filmmaker (blowhard) convinces me through misinformation and misrepresentation of facts/statistics/whatever information to vote for pro-gun legislation, would you be just as angry? Or do you really think that all right-wing blowhards tell the absolute truth, too?

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But it's not. Instead, I hear people at work chatting together about how good a movie Bowling for Columbine is, and I know that they are being misled, and are swallowing untruths whole. When people believe things that are false, and then make decisions (voting and otherwise) based on those falsehoods, that is a Bad Thing.


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I did, and then I heard at least three different people talking about "what a good movie that Bowling for Columbine is." And that disturbed me.



You think people having the right to their own opinions is a bad thing? You say that you're giving them the benefit of the doubt that they can tell the difference between a so-called documentary and an editorial piece, yet you're assuming that they're "swallowing untruths whole" when they're merely commenting about how they think it's a good movie. Do you need another clue-in? That's called an opinion!

I think Bowling for Columbine is a good movie. It's highly entertaining. I laughed...a lot. Maybe you're missing a sense of humour, and satire, and sarcasm. Perhaps that's the problem.

Do I believe everything that Michael Moore says? No.

Does he make his point and present his political agenda in an entertaining, amusing and satirical fashion? Yes.

Just because I don't believe everything he says in the movie, do I have to call it a bad movie? No.

Can you call it a bad movie? Sure ya can! It's one of your rights when living in America. Although, I'm still not sure if you've even seen the movie, since you seem to avoid that question whenever it's presented.

By the way, the people who tend to like Michael Moore's movies, for whatever reasons, tend to be left of center. It's not like his film is going to instantly convert right to left. It might convince people sitting on the fence to go one way or the other, but are you going to find all those fence-sitters and try to woo them your way?

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Could you clarify what you think you've debunked? I don't see it. The missile crap is the least of what I think is shady about Moore's movie. The more important things are the utter misrepresentation of Heston's actual speeches; the misrepresentation of the bank-rifle deal, and many others that you will find on various websites dedicated to debunking Moore's lies.

I care very little about whether the stupid Titan rockets were made in Littleton. That is a very minor point in a maelstrom of larger lies.



Again with the angry replies. Sheesh. Get a grip--you sound like a toddler in a tantrum. My "Titan rocket" posts weren't even meant to debunk your claims. They were to show how poor your arguments were (are). Your claims and arguments as you presented them were debunked. Your credibility and veracity in that thread are about as good as Michael Moore's. Had you made this post and this post from the very beginning instead of just paraphrasing and parroting what you read on other web sites, maybe you wouldn't look so much the fool and angry young man. If you were in a debate, would you make your opponent go Google for the facts that support your argument?

_Pm
__
"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

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As Gawain said, don't sweat it--that seems to be your biggest obstacle, especially in regards to Michael Moore. Why does it matter to you so much that he uses film to tell his stories, and spins those stories radically to the left?



Because they are palmed-off onto the public as though they are fact.
-



Did you ever see "The Green Berets"? Did you complain about the propaganda in that?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Did you ever see "The Green Berets"? Did you complain about the propaganda in that?



The movie "The Green Berets" was not filmed like it was a documentary. The movie "The Green Berets" did not edit a speech by an opposing side to make it sound evil.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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If everyone that had a hummer in their office got fired, the unemployment rate would soar. A survey about 15 years ago reported that over 50% of white collar workers had sex in the office at least once.
_______________________________________________
And out of those 50%, 99.9999% probably were not in charge of keeping the worlds only remaining superpower safe. By putting himself in a compromising position with a person he didn't even know... well, let's just say its a little more serious than screwing your secretary. And then there's the lying to the grand jury part, but I'm sure you know all about that.

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You just blamed everybody, then said you wish everyone would quit trying to find someone to blame. I don't get it. I think we should blame George Bush. He seems to be responsible for everything that ails the world, why not add this to the pile?

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If everyone that had a hummer in their office got fired, the unemployment rate would soar. A survey about 15 years ago reported that over 50% of white collar workers had sex in the office at least once.
_______________________________________________
And out of those 50%, 99.9999% probably were not in charge of keeping the worlds only remaining superpower safe. By putting himself in a compromising position with a person he didn't even know... well, let's just say its a little more serious than screwing your secretary. And then there's the lying to the grand jury part, but I'm sure you know all about that.



This is a good point, and one that is typically missed by people when they are supporting (any) President.
"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

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received the Palme d'Or in Cannes Film Festival.



Yeah? And the crucifix swirling in a used toilet bowl was called art. What's your point, that critics have no taste and live somewhere other than reality?[/reply


actually the point would seem to be that the concept and purpose of 'Art' is continually misunderstood by a large portion of the general populace...

to many people reject the presentation or the artist without ever critically examining the work at all... of course most people never learned to think critically in the first place so Art is completely lost on them....
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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Did you ever see "The Green Berets"? Did you complain about the propaganda in that?



The movie "The Green Berets" was not filmed like it was a documentary.
Quote




Are you sure of that? It was all about showing a liberal journalist the error of his ways, with a whole lot of cooperation from the Army.

But it did have the worst ever movie song for its intro.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Are you sure of that? It was all about showing a liberal journalist the error of his ways, with a whole lot of cooperation from the Army.



It was not marketed as a documentary.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Have any of the Michael Moore haters actually seen a Michael Moore film? Have any of you actually read any of his books? Have you actually found out what things he states as "fact" and then done research that actually disproves him? If so, lay it out please. Otherwise, you sound much more ideologically biased then Michael Moore could ever be.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

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