The WAR is about OIL

[Botellines 0]

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capatilism is what makes this the greatest country on the face of the earth. there will always be people who don't get a fair shake and those who would rather watch tv than learn...but if there is no competition in economy, your country ends up like the USSR, dead.

I have been living in the US and i can tell you that the US is not the greatest country in the world. As a matter of fact, Spain is not either. Neither the UK where i have also lived for a while. When i spend a fair amount of time in EVERY country on this planet, i will tell you IN MY OPINION which is the greates country. The rest is just cheap propaganda.
About capitalism... Don´t get my wrong, i think capitalism is necessary to some extent. You need some way to reward the hard worker over the lazy scum. To not do so is an invitation to have a country full of lazy disatisfied people. However, i do think is necesary some form of socialism so everybody is given a fair chance to earn money by hard work. And a strictly capitalist society does not do that.

[Ron 10]

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I have been living in the US and i can tell you that the US is not the greatest country in the world.

don't let the door hit you in the ass.

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i do think is necesary some form of socialism so everybody is given a fair chance to earn money by hard work. And a strictly capitalist society does not do that.

Bull shit. That is the very reason why capitalism works....If you want it bad enough, and work hard enough , or are smart enough...you can get what you want.

Socialism takes from me to give to the lazy.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Botellines 0]

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don't let the door hit you in the ass.

What does this expression mean?

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Bull shit. That is the very reason why capitalism works....If you want it bad enough, and work hard enough , or are smart enough...you can get what you want.
Socialism takes from me to give to the lazy.

You are way out of touch with reality. The expression "socialism takes from me to give to the lazy" pretty much speaks for itself. I don´t know your background, but i doubt you come from a low income family. Capitalism works for you. And it works for me, and i am happy with that, but i admit that it doesn´t work for everybody.
If you don´t have enough money for college because you barely make it thru the month to feed your family, capitalism does not works for you.
I know of people who have two jobs and don´t make that much money, and they certainly work harder than most of the rest.

Edited for spelling

[beowulf 1]

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don't let the door hit you in the ass.

What does this expression mean?

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Bull shit. That is the very reason why capitalism works....If you want it bad enough, and work hard enough , or are smart enough...you can get what you want.
Socialism takes from me to give to the lazy.

You are way out of touch with reality. The expression "socialism takes from me to give to the lazy" pretty much speaks for itself. I don´t know your background, but i doubt you come from a low income family. Capitalism works for you. And it works for me, and i am happy with that, but i admit that it doesn´t work for everybody.
If you don´t have enough money for college because you barely make it thru the month to feed your family, capitalism does not works for you.
I know of people who have two jobs and don´t make that much money, and they certainly work harder than most of the rest.

Edited for spelling

I came from a low income family (ie single mother with 4 kids).
No one ever handed me anything. I worked my ass off to get to where I am. I sometimes worked jobs that most people here in the US would never dream of working. I did what I had to do and continued to push forward. Now I work with my brain and not my back. Capitalism works for those that are not lazy and are willing to take chances.

[wmw999 2,588]

I'm all for capitalism; shoot, I even take the Economist (and trust me, it's all about capitalism).

But it's a lot easier to get ahead if you start ahead, and capitalism makes it kind of easy to stay ahead if you started out there.

It's possible to get ahead from low income -- I know plenty of people who did that. But how many people do you know who really aren't that motivated, but whose parents got them into good schools, and made sure they went to college, so that when their motivation kicked in, they were prepared? I know plenty, and probably am one of those people -- it's what parents do.

But if you start out without those advantages, you have to work harder. I realize the answer to that is "sucks to be you," but it is the simple fact. And if one considers certain things (besides air) to be necessary to basic human dignity, then it behooves society to provide them.

We don't provide equal education to rich and poor; we don't provide equal health care to rich and poor -- those are things that the government has some say in. Yes, the poor don't come to school as well-prepared as the rich. They have to work harder to get the same degree of ahead.

And people who don't think the US is perfect have plenty of right to live here. The point of having a system is giving people a way to work within it to make the changes they think are important.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pajarito 0]

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You are way out of touch with reality. The expression "socialism takes from me to give to the lazy" pretty much speaks for itself. I don´t know your background, but i doubt you come from a low income family. Capitalism works for you. And it works for me, and i am happy with that, but i admit that it doesn´t work for everybody.
If you don´t have enough money for college because you barely make it thru the month to feed your family, capitalism does not works for you.
I know of people who have two jobs and don´t make that much money, and they certainly work harder than most of the rest.

That’s bullshit! My Grandfather grew up in a large family on a farm. They were extremely poor. He fought and was wounded in battle in WWII. He used his entitlements from the military to go to college and became an Accountant. My Dad and his family grew up in pretty much a shack with very little money. They scraped much of what they had together to send his two sisters to college. My Dad used entitlements from the military. They all worked very hard, got college degrees, and became very successful. They weren’t “given” anything. They worked hard and made their own way in life. Capitalism works if you are self-motivated, have drive, and a strong work ethic. By the way, nobody put me through college either. I served in the military and also used my entitlements from that.

[Ron 10]

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In Reply To
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don't let the door hit you in the ass.

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What does this expression mean?

It means if you don't like the US...That planes take people both ways.

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You are way out of touch with reality. The expression "socialism takes from me to give to the lazy" pretty much speaks for itself.

Yep....Lets have a little "Goverment/Economics for Dummies" here:

Capitalism:
A system that rewards hard work by giving everyone a theoretical equal footing. Yes if the person is born with a silver spoon in thier mouth they a better shot. And the poor family has to work harder..But in this plan the poor person can become rich, and the rich can become poor. Its a system that gives the spoils to the person that works hardest, and punishes the lazy and incompetent.

Communism:
A system that in theory allows everyone exactly the same. This system is flawed by design. It encourages laziness by not making people work hard since they will not get anything extra for that work. Just by doing the "status quo" you will get the same as the next guy. This plan never works and those that can, do swindle a way to get more.

Socialism:
A mixture of both. The idea was that the important things are controlled by the government and that everyone has the same basic minimum chance...A decent theory in plan, but never in practice. For this to work, the performers have to be punished for doing so well, to allow the under achievers a chance.

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I don´t know your background, but i doubt you come from a low income family.

At many times in my life my family was broke. My parents went bankrupt. My Dad sold cars, and my step Mom worked as a secratary...All three kids were "latch key" kids.

When I moved out on my own when I was 18 I was working two jobs and was so poor that sometimes my only meals for days were p-nut butter sandwhiches (Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner for days) and other days there was no food. I went from 5'6" 150 pounds to 130 pounds. At one point in my life I had not eaten for two days, and the Church I was going to had sent me a basket of food..That food I managed to make last two weeks. You ever eaten HALF an apple for a meal? This was a MAJOR turrning point in my life.

Now my parents do much better. they are not rich but they do better than most. It was hard work and effort that put them there...

Me? Well I kept working hard focusing myself, and I got promotion after promotion. I went from making below poverty level in 1992 to doing quite well 13 years later. I now have no debt, a nice savings, and a healthy 401K going. I also have every toy I want.

I am going to college by me spending 3 years in the US Army and getting the GI Bill. BTW while I was in the Army I was making 11,000 to 16,800 a year.

I took the oportunities that were there...I never sat back and asked for handouts...Only once in my life did I EVER take one..And that was that basket of food the Church sent me. After that low, I decided two things...I would never be in that place again, and I would help others when I can.

Guess that blew your theory all to hell huh?

I know Capitalism works...I used it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[pajarito 0]

You’re right. It does make it a lot easier to get ahead if you start ahead but somebody had to make that sacrifice. My Granddad did. My Dad pushed it even further for me because of what his Dad did. I love my kids. If I had to start from rock bottom to push them up the hill, I’d do it without question. My Granddad worked his ass off to ensure that his kids went to college and had the chance at a better life. There was no option for them as far as he was concerned. They would have it better. They should be rewarded for their hard work and sacrifice. It wasn’t given to them as a handout.

[TomAiello 26]

Capitalism doesn't provide equal opportunity. Doing that would require incredibly strict totalitarianism, along with genetic engineering that is beyond our current technology.

Capitalism provides a certain minimum level of opportunity. Some people get more, yes. The point is that everyone has at least some minimum level.

The real question is whether a more socialist system (plenty of socialism in the US) would raise the shared minimum level of opportunity (perhaps), and whether any potential increase in the minimum opportunity level would be worth the costs (I don't think so).

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Jimbo 0]

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If you don´t have enough money for college because you barely make it thru the month to feed your family, capitalism does not works for you.

Sure it does. I didn't go to college and I pull down a more than respectable salary. My boss didn't go to college either and make a generous amount. I know one person who frequents this forum and doesn't have a college degree, he's pulling in a mint right now. It's all about how badly you want it. Anything is possible.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Botellines 0]

Actually it doesn´t blow my theory to hell. Good for you and for pajarito for getting where you are. So i know now two guys that made it thru capitalism. I never said it was impossible, though. but for two that where successful there is hundreds that were not, and not due to lack of will.
Let´s face it, if you work hard enough, and are married to someone who work hard enough and don´t have many kids it is unlikely that you will starve. But that is one thing and another completely diferent thing is to do well economicly. Sort of having two cars, or a nice big house, or a brand new rig when the older gets too old, etc.
How many people are ruined because they didn´t have money to pay the doctors?
that is where socialism should be. A state that provides with the minimum basics for human dignity (socialism). And if you want the extras (cars, rigs, nice house, etc) then you will have to work hard (capitalism).

[billvon 3,116]

>don't let the door hit you in the ass.

It's fortunate more do not share that view. Some of the greatest americans in history thought the US had problems, and worked to fix them. Martin Luther King comes to mind. Thank god (for us) he didn't "just leave" when he saw racial injustice.

>Bull shit. That is the very reason why capitalism works....If you want
> it bad enough, and work hard enough , or are smart enough...you
> can get what you want.

>Socialism takes from me to give to the lazy.

The US is a partially socialist country. The road system - the CDC - emergency medical care - police - water - environmental protections - all paid for in a socialist manner.

Any country that claims "pure capitalism/socialism/communism etc is the way to go, and we won't taint it with other evil systems" is doomed to failure. The wisest countries pick and choose, taking the best of each system.

Roads? A socialist approach just works better. Jobs? Capitalism gives people more incentive to work.

[billvon 3,116]

>but if there is no competition in economy, your country ends up like
>the USSR, dead.

And if there is no socialism in the form of a safety net, your PEOPLE end up dead. There is room for both in the US.

[Gawain 0]

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>but if there is no competition in economy, your country ends up like
>the USSR, dead.

And if there is no socialism in the form of a safety net, your PEOPLE end up dead. There is room for both in the US.

Ask the Germans if that's true - their social services infrastructure is crumbling, on the verge of collapse. France, despite "privatization", cannot compete on a global scale without heavy government subsidies.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,116]

>Ask the Germans if that's true -

I don't need to. I can ask americans that have been supported by that (very socialistic) safety net. It worked for them; they would have starved without it.

[Gawain 0]

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>Ask the Germans if that's true -

I don't need to. I can ask americans that have been supported by that (very socialistic) safety net. It worked for them; they would have starved without it.

You mean welfare babies?? Or are you talking great depression era. Either way, the system is way out of date and needs massive reforms.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[dbattman 0]

Someone call the feds! There's been a hijacking!

[PhillyKev 0]

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Capitalism works for those that are not lazy and are willing to take chances.

As long as their not dumb with a bad back.

[Ron 10]

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but for two that where successful there is hundreds that were not, and not due to lack of will.

Most times it IS lack of will. Some are not willing to do what it takes.

"I dont' want to go back to school"
"I don't wan't to work weekends"

Some have problems that prevent them from doing anything.

Alcoholics come to mind.

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Let´s face it, if you work hard enough, and are married to someone who work hard enough and don´t have many kids it is unlikely that you will starve. But that is one thing and another completely diferent thing is to do well economicly. Sort of having two cars, or a nice big house, or a brand new rig when the older gets too old, etc.

Thats splitting hairs...Most would consider a home, kids and not starving to be good. Me, I want more than I have now...So I am willing to WORK for it...INVEST for it. (Sacrificing my pleasure NOW for the future) Thats something most will not do.

Like it or not...Look around which countries on this planet have the best standard of living?

Your question is answered

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[christelsabine 1]

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Ask the Germans if that's true

A I am German, I'd like to answer:
The social system still works considerable well but, is kind of "downsized". In every direction.

Nowadays, I really would not like to be out of work: Being ill for a longer time f.e. easely could turn into a complete private insolvency.

Private insurances more and more are demanded as state subsidy is going to be limited.

This is result of our socialist, which I really do love

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Gawain 0]

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Ask the Germans if that's true

A I am German, I'd like to answer:
The social system still works considerable well but, is kind of "downsized". In every direction.

Nowadays, I really would not like to be out of work: Being ill for a longer time f.e. easely could turn into a complete private insolvency.

Private insurances more and more are demanded as state subsidy is going to be limited.

This is result of our socialist, which I really do love

Unfortunately, the social programs in Europe are too expensive, and too generous. As everybody lives longer and the average age goes higher, entire programs will have to be cut.

Germany is not alone, Italy and France also have significant burdens to bear. I noted Germany because there were some massive demonstrations there just last month all over the country. Your labor force is falling under the "spell" of the unions demands to steady or increased pensions or other benefits. Signs that say "social demolition creates no jobs" are indicative of a lost memory of what happened the last time socialism was tried in that country. Socialism in all its forms doesn't work. It does not empower, it enslaves. It does not inspire, it stagnates. I'm amazed that Germany's very well educated, well skilled and technologically powerful economy hasn't figured that out. Instead, there has been little growth for nearly ten years, and the last three have been brutal. Unemployment is close to 10%. That is not a system that works well.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[christelsabine 1]

No, that system doesn't work well. Especially during last 3 - 5 years, it was going down rapibly.

Nearly 10 percent unemployment is too much.

Coming back to original thread:

Price for one litre of gas is around Euro 1,10 (normal lead) over here.

War for Oil: Easy to imagine

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[rickjump1 0]

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Unfortunately, the social programs in Europe are too expensive, and too generous. As everybody lives longer and the average age goes higher, entire programs will have to be cut.....

The same is happening here. The government will not be able to provide security to the baby boomers here. It will take a lot more than illegal aliens to prop up social security. More taxes maybe?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

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[kelpdiver 2]

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Actually it doesn´t blow my theory to hell. Good for you and for pajarito for getting where you are. So i know now two guys that made it thru capitalism. I never said it was impossible, though. but for two that where successful there is hundreds that were not, and not due to lack of will.
Let´s face it, if you work hard enough, and are married to someone who work hard enough and don´t have many kids it is unlikely that you will starve. But that is one thing and another completely diferent thing is to do well economicly. Sort of having two cars, or a nice big house, or a brand new rig when the older gets too old, etc.
How many people are ruined because they didn´t have money to pay the doctors?
that is where socialism should be. A state that provides with the minimum basics for human dignity (socialism). And if you want the extras (cars, rigs, nice house, etc) then you will have to work hard (capitalism).

Whew - everyone is dealing in black and whites here. What happened to the grey? And Ron, his point about the best place in the world flew over your head - unless you've lived in many places, how are you qualified to answer? I can't even imagine living outside of California.

Capitalism rewards effort and intelligence by individuals, or by their parents.

Our current President wouldn't have made it without such benefits. It's not an equal playing field. If you start out well, you can easily coast. If you start out poorly, you don't get to coast and still make it. I don't have too much sympathy for people that use their circumstances as an excuse, but I can't ignore its existence.

And let's not forget luck. Many people are quick to extrapolate their successes to skill, and use that pride to blame others for not succeeding as well. Bear in mind that capitalism has winners and losers. It's not zero sum in the long run, but may be in the short term.

[juanesky 0]

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>don't let the door hit you in the ass.

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It's fortunate more do not share that view. Some of the greatest americans in history thought the US had problems, and worked to fix them. Martin Luther King comes to mind. Thank god (for us) he didn't "just leave" when he saw racial injustice.

The problem is, he is not american, lives and works in the US and has a profound interest in diminishing as well as insulting anything that has to do with the US. I consider that either lack of character, or just sucking up on a system to make his life better. MLK was an American, who cared for his country. Hardly his case

I think the door hitting on his ass should apply.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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