Columbine Shooter's Parents Speak

[Kennedy 0]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4990167/

Read the article. They say it's not their fault and have no need to be forgiven. They blame the school 'culture.' They say they didn't know he was out of hand until after the shooting. They relate it to a natural disaster. They shirk all responsibility. Sounds exactly like the kind of parents who might raise a 'Klebold.'

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Forgiveness not needed, say Klebold’s parents
Columbine massacre was not result of upbringing, they say

NEW YORK - In their first interview since the Columbine High School massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no need be forgiven and didn’t realize their son was beyond hope until after he was dead.

“Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised,” Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks in Saturday’s editions of The New York Times. “He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised.”

Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 13 people on April 20, 1999, before taking their own lives.

The couple took issue with people who say they forgive them for what happened.

“I haven’t done anything for which I need forgiveness,” Susan Klebold said.

They acknowledged they missed signs that their son was in trouble. Klebold and Harris were in a juvenile diversion program for breaking into a van and stealing tools and other items in January 1998.

'Toxic culture' blamed
“He was hopeless. We didn’t realize it until after the end,” Tom Klebold said.

“I think he suffered horribly before he died,” Susan Klebold said. “For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.”

The couple said they felt under siege after the shooting and never had a chance to grieve for their son.

Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened.

“We’re not qualified to sort this out. People need to understand this could have happened to them,” he said.

The Klebolds said their son was set off by the “toxic culture” of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated.

Jefferson County Public Schools officials have consistently denied that bullying was tolerated or that athletes received special treatment.

Victim's parents react
The Klebolds’ comments was criticized late Saturday by some of the victims’ parents.

“I’m horrified,” Dawn Anna, whose daughter Lauren Townsend was killed at Columbine, told The Associated Press. “I wanted an apology. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. I didn’t hear it.”

Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks.

“This was murder,” he said. “In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.”
(cont)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I don't know what to say.
I have never raised kids, so I really must recuse myself on commenting on whether it is possible or not to see a kid in that kind of trouble.

From the outside, it seems to me quite believable for a parent to be oblivious to plenty of things a kid does. Kids know what is allowed or forbidden: if they wish to do what is forbidden, they are very good at concealing it, especially from parents who have not previously been given reason to believe their kid is a liar.

Anyone's kids could have emotional trouble. It's just that most people's kids' emotional troubles are pretty mundane, and sort themselves out as they kids get older. Some percentage of the kids will have more severe troubles. At what point would you question your own kids about possible plans they have to go murdering their schoolmates?! That's an awful heavy accusation for a parent to come to grips with making against her son. It's easy for me to see why someone would hold off on making it -- possibly until it is too late.

But to claim that a parent should have had "control" over their kid so that a violent episode would actually be precluded is unrealistic. The kid leaves the house for school, he could do anything during the time he is away. Could hijack a bus, push an old lady in front of a train, molest a pre-teen, rob a liquor store, or simply go to school with his friends. A parent can't shadow his kid all day and night long. So of course if a mentally troubled kid -- who on the outside just seems like every other kid with everyday "troubles" -- wanted to do something really bad, all he has to do is wait for those myriad times during the week when no parent or adult is around. I had times when no one was around to stop me if I wanted to get into trouble. So have we all. I even DID things that would have caused me big trouble -- if anyone had caught me (mostly petty vandalism stuff back when I thought I was having fun or being righteous doing it). On the outside, I was a well-behaved, intelligent, successful student/kid. So if I could do bad shit and get away with my parents not thinking anything was amiss, so could others. To a degree, I can easily believe that the parents of these Columbine shooters may not have had culpability for the failure to prevent the attack.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[mailin 0]

Growing up, I'd like to think that my parents were pretty oblivious to some stuff. Hell, I know there were numerous 'events' that they never knew of - and I planned it that way.

If you are doing something and you don't want someone to find out - you can hide it, and I belive these kids did.

I don't think they need to apologize - they lost someone too; granted someone they should have had a better grasp on, but they lost someone too.

How can all parents be responsible for all their childrens actions? By the time they are a teenager, I would like to think that there would be more personal responsability. Hell, I think of the stuff I did as a teenager, and it was the exact opposite of what my parents 'taught' me - and that was on purpose.

Jen

Arianna Frances

[Jimbo 0]

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If you are doing something and you don't want someone to find out - you can hide it, and I belive these kids did.

It's not as if these were generally good children who snuck out of the house to see an R rated movie. There had to be a pattern of behaviour here that the parents COMPLETELY missed or ignored. How a parent can miss that their child is that screwed up is completely beyond me.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Newbie 0]

if you read some of the background on the 2 boys, and their pattern of behaviour for the year leading up to the massacre (that's how long they spent planning it), you will see that, while both the kids had various "issues", it's hard to lay blame on anyone for the out-of-the-blue action that took place at the school, IMO.

You would have thought these kids would have come from completely messed up home lives, that scarred them emotionally - they didn't, it was quite the opposite in fact, which is why i understand the parents when they say that it could have happened to anyone. Sure there were signs that they weren't angels (they got into trouble with the cops for breaking into a van), but nothing to indicate what they had planned. All the research on Columbine points to the same thing, namely that many people had a little something of an issue or concern with these kids, but no one had the full picture.

Hiding stuff from your parents isn't hard, concealing emotions from them isn't hard - both these kids went bowling on the day of the shooting, that says a lot to me about the mental significance they placed on this event. Hiding something that, to you, isn't a big deal (in terms of emotional distress) will make it that much easier to hide, no matter how horrific it seems to most of us "normal" people. I think it would have been quite easy for them, in that mindset, to hide a lot from even those closest to them, namely their families.

What in your opinion should the parents have done to ensure that the massacre didn't happen?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[wmw999 2,589]

I completely agree with his parents that kids can hide very serious things from their parents, and that kids, being kids, can make very serious decisions based on not-enough information, and then act on them. It's the nature of kids (and yes, they were definitely kids).

If this is just to exonerate themselves, then they probably should have kept quiet. But if this is the start of something that can help families with kids who are suffering silently, well, then wonderful. And I mean that.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AndyMan 7]

It was really clear in Bowling For Columbine that this guys parents really had no interest in anything he was doing. They put their head in the sand, and kept it there throughout the whole event.

The parents really do have something to apologise for, and I am shocked that hindsight is failing to the degree that it is. I wonder if they're making these statements to defend themselves from liability, or something.

Yes, school is harsh, and leads many kids down terrible paths. This isn't new, nor is it uncommon. What allowed Columbine to happen is ignorant disconnected parents who kept their heads in the sand while their kids were making wrong choices every day.

Parents need to be active in their kids lives so they can intervene when things go wrong. Things always go wrong.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Kennedy 0]

Nothing was clear in Bowling for Coumbine. That was the biggest piece of tripe ever released to the big screen, and it's a crime anyone still calls it a documentary.

Someone here said the shooters attended bowling the morning before they pulled the trigger. In fact, they did not.
(even the title of Moore's parcel of lies is incorrect)

However, I got the impression the parents simply did not involve themselves, and did not watch what they were not involved in.

You're right, that bit about it takes a villiage is garbage. It takes loving parents and family. Period.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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However, I got the impression the parents simply did not involve themselves, and did not watch what they were not involved in.

There is an ongoing issue here in society. The pursuit of the almighty dollar made the parents of Klebold and Harris worry more about their golf club membership and keeping up with the Jones to worry about what sort of activities their children were involved in. I think it's reprehensible that the parents of Dylan Klebold have publicly chosen to accept no responsibility for the worst school shooting (to date) in American history.

This is one time when I will say that "guns weren't responsible for this tragedy" but that the parents of Klebold and Harris were responsible for caring too much about their financial stature in the community instead of caring about what their children were thinking and doing.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kelpdiver 2]

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[It's not as if these were generally good children who snuck out of the house to see an R rated movie. There had to be a pattern of behaviour here that the parents COMPLETELY missed or ignored. How a parent can miss that their child is that screwed up is completely beyond me.

How do you distinguish the pattern of behavior of these punks from every other unhappy teenager? These parents may not be stars, but even great parents have kids that do awful things. I don't buy into their claim for a minute - the school environment didn't cause this event. These kids did, and perhaps some blame can be passed to the girl that bought some of the weapons for them.

It's not a great time for these parents - you lost your sons, so you want to grieve, but given what they did, no one else is going to be sympathetic to those feelings, and you might not be either. So then you have the guilt of what they did, and likely the guillt of not feeling as bad about losing them as you should.

[jkm2500 0]

Maybe i am wrong but there is a certain point in a juveniles life when the parents are no longer responsible for what their juveniles are doing. One of the killers was 17 the other 18. These are young men capable of a lot worse. These are true psychopaths.

To hold their parents responsible would be kind of ridiculous IMO. The 2 were old enough to be held accountable as adults in a court of law.

My parents didn't know what I was out doing when I was 17 and 18 years old. I didn't want them to know, and therefore they didn't. It isn't hard to hide stuff from your parents if you really want to. I say this also considering that most parents are trying to give their kids more trust at that age.

Place the blame where it is due. On Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. They are the ones that made the conscientious decision to commit that heinous crime in the first place.

Now, after saying that I will concede that if the parents had done a better job of instilling morals and values into their children as they were being raised it probably wouldn't have happened. However I am sure that it has been taken into consideration that people can reject the values directed by their parents. I think that by the age of 18 they are able to make decisions that either allow them to be a part of society, or the make decisions that make them a menace to society. Either way it is personal responsibility. I don't see us holding parents of gang bangers and other miscreants responsible for the way that they raised their kids, nor for not making some last second intervention.

However, by the time that the event occurred, there was literally nothing that the parents could do. So if you are expecting some last second intervention by the parents, you are making an error in judgement.

The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

[craichead 0]

You're right, nothing was clear in Bowling for Columbine. However, there is another TV documentary (or special news/investigative report type thing) that was shown on/near the 5th annivesary. I think it was aired on MSNBC, something to the effect of "Could Columbine Have Been Prevented?"

This piece did show that the parents did not involve themselves--even after several police reports and complaints had been filed by neighbors.

_Pm

__
"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

[AndyMan 7]

This is the one I was thinking of, not Bowling for Columbine.

The detachment of the parents was astonishing. They didn't even know what his bedroom looked like, never mind that he was stashing a large arsenal of guns in plain view.

Columbine struck a chord with geeks, nerds, and outcasts worldwide, but its a mistake to put blame on the school or the victims. That these kids would feel anger and resentment towards their peers is understandable. That they were allowed to proceed as far as they did is bewildering.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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Columbine struck a chord with geeks, nerds, and outcasts worldwide, but its a mistake to put blame on the school or the victims.

I disagree. See my previous posting on this thread. Blame should be equally distributed.

[AndyMan 7]

I saw your post. Consider councelling. Empthy for serial killers is not healthy.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Nightingale 0]

I read his post too...

I can empathize with every word.

edited to add: he's not the one who needs counselling. Those freaks who tormented him do.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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I read his post too...

I can empathize with every word.

...Lest I be cast as Hannibal Lecter's understudy, I deleted the posting.

[AndyMan 7]

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I can empathize with every word.

So can I. That's not the point

I can't empathise with serial killers, nor defend their actions.

Anyone who feels that assault weapons are legitimate answers to being bullied needs help.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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I can empathize with every word.

So can I. That's not the point

I can't empathise with serial killers, nor defend their actions.

Anyone who feels that assault weapons are legitimate answers to being bullied needs help.

_Am

I can understand their rage, just not how they chose to vent/express it...

-End of line-

[kallend 2,150]

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Maybe i am wrong but there is a certain point in a juveniles life when the parents are no longer responsible for what their juveniles are doing. One of the killers was 17 the other 18. These are young men capable of a lot worse. These are true psychopaths.

To hold their parents responsible would be kind of ridiculous IMO. The 2 were old enough to be held accountable as adults in a court of law.

My parents didn't know what I was out doing when I was 17 and 18 years old. I didn't want them to know, and therefore they didn't. It isn't hard to hide stuff from your parents if you really want to. I say this also considering that most parents are trying to give their kids more trust at that age.

Place the blame where it is due. On Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. They are the ones that made the conscientious decision to commit that heinous crime in the first place.

Now, after saying that I will concede that if the parents had done a better job of instilling morals and values into their children as they were being raised it probably wouldn't have happened. However I am sure that it has been taken into consideration that people can reject the values directed by their parents. I think that by the age of 18 they are able to make decisions that either allow them to be a part of society, or the make decisions that make them a menace to society. Either way it is personal responsibility. I don't see us holding parents of gang bangers and other miscreants responsible for the way that they raised their kids, nor for not making some last second intervention.

However, by the time that the event occurred, there was literally nothing that the parents could do. So if you are expecting some last second intervention by the parents, you are making an error in judgement.

Interesting piece of research published in the latest journal of the National Academy of Science.

They followed brain development from age 4 through 21 in a bunch of kids, using MRI, etc.

The areas of the brain responsible for self-restraint, judgement, and suchlike are the last to develop, in the late teens and early twenties.

Of course, any parent could tell you that, but it's nice to have scientific confirmation.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Casurf1978 0]

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However, I got the impression the parents simply did not involve themselves, and did not watch what they were not involved in.

For once I agree with Kennedy on something. When I was in HS my mom, single parent kid here, was in my face about everything. Where I was going, with whom, what we were doing, when I was going to get back, she wanted to meet my friends parents etc. At the time I hated it but looking back now it was what a parent should do. How many parents now a days know one of their kids teachers names, or the names of the parents of their kids best friend.

[Nightingale 0]

I don't condone their actions. BUT, I understand what drove them to it. Those of us who were mentally tortured in school understand the anger, the hatred, the dread of going to school, and the fear of what your classmates are going to do to you next. That kind of stress can do strange things to the human psyche. Some of us have support mechanisms in place and are equipped to handle it. Others, obviously, are not.

edited to add: to quote DrunkMonkey: I can understand their rage, just not how they chose to vent/express it...

[kelpdiver 2]

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I read his post too...
I can empathize with every word.
edited to add: he's not the one who needs counselling. Those freaks who tormented him do.

It just concerns me that he's been out of school for how long (apparently at least 4 years) and is still quite bitter about it. That sort of negative energy is never good.

Not everything was great during the school years, but I prefer to think of the highlights and not dwell on the rest, write it off as the typical pains of teenage life.

[wmw999 2,589]

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write it off as the typical pains of teenage life.

If one's teenage life was spectacularly cruel, it might be harder to put it behind, and this discussion will bring one back.

The instant you can't figure out why someone did something terrible, you stop being able to use anything but force to combat it. And force only works as long as you're both there, and stronger.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[livendive 8]

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Interesting piece of research published in the latest journal of the National Academy of Science.

They followed brain development from age 4 through 21 in a bunch of kids, using MRI, etc.

The areas of the brain responsible for self-restraint, judgement, and suchlike are the last to develop, in the late teens and early twenties.

Of course, any parent could tell you that, but it's nice to have scientific confirmation.

I'm guessing they'll have a hard time selling such a notion (one I suspect to be true) to today's society that doesn't seem to blink at the concept of prosecuting 10-year-olds as adults.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)