PhillyKev 0 #26 May 10, 2004 QuotePresident Ashcroft???? AHHHHHHH!!!! AHHHHHHH!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Dude...don't do that to me. People in my office thought my hair cut on fire!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #27 May 10, 2004 Turtle, you're a worse troll than I today...nice work. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #28 May 10, 2004 You are funny Kev *sigh* I have this little voice inside my head that constantly warns me about Kerry - Not the democratic party - but Kerry. Something he said just never has or will set right with me - "Personally - I am against abortion, politically I am for it." I don't understand what it is that is so attractive about a candidate that has none of his OWN convictions that he is willing to stand up for . . . ok, maybe not "None", but how do you know - how can you tell what he really stands for? Is he going to tell you - or is he going to tell you what he thinks you want to hear? He really is a discusting little wishy washy piece of indecisive crap.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boudy 0 #29 May 10, 2004 Quote No 3rd candidate exists for this election, so there's absolutely no change it will be someone besides Kerry or Bush. Yep, it looks to be one or the other. Frankly, I'm not sure what the petition deadlines are in the various key states to get Pres. candidates on the ballot. But in a wild scenerio where two prominent politicians leave their party and run as independents to rescue the nation in intensely troubled times and catch the imagination of the public - a hell of a lot of petitioning can get done in a hurry. Quote McCain couldn't even win a primary - got steamrolled by a guy that didn't get a majority of votes. That was back then. A lot has happened since. If anyone's tough enough to rebound from a beating, it's McCain. Besides, he lost running for GOP nomination and fighting for conservative base against a dirty tricks campaign. It'd be a different story as an independent appealing across the electorate. QuotePowell - while polls show a great level of respect for the man, voters change their tunes when it's no longer just a answer on the phone, and the GOP in particular doesn't seem likely to vote a black man into the white house. Says who? what differentiates a poll on Powell from other polls? the GOP placed Powell & Condi in positions of great influence, prestige and power. Ideological conformity & winning seem far more prevalent hurdles to GOP (or Dems) acceptance today than race. Powell has broad appeal and could win. Anyway, Powell/McCain is just my fantasy Independent 3rd party ticket - I think these guys could unite country & would trust them more than our current "real" options to lead US back to steadier path. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #30 May 10, 2004 QuoteAnd yes, I think McCain would have very possibly won an overall election handily. Especially against Al Gore. That's because McCain IS a democrat... he's pissed off a lot of republicans. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #31 May 10, 2004 QuoteHe really is a discusting little wishy washy piece of indecisive crap. I have heard that whispers are going around to some how make him pull out of the race. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #32 May 10, 2004 >Bill so you think what Kerry did himself is on the same level as Bush > presided over a group of guards up many many levels of the chain > of command? I think that when a soldier confesses that he did something he now considers war crimes, and when the secretary of defense takes full responsibility for dozens of war crimes that he didn't know about at the time - they are very similar. I know you will never see that because of the difference in their political parties; that's fine. Just consider that the rest of the world, in places that care more about whether someone is an american rather than whether he's a democrat or republican, may not see it as you do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #33 May 10, 2004 >I have heard that whispers are going around to some how make him >pull out of the race. Might cause some scrambling to get in enough smearing before the election with the new guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 May 10, 2004 Quote That was back then. A lot has happened since. If anyone's tough enough to rebound from a beating, it's McCain. Besides, he lost running for GOP nomination and fighting for conservative base against a dirty tricks campaign. It'd be a different story as an independent appealing across the electorate. McCain has so many skeletons that he'd have no hope as an independent. You could look at his attacks on the 1st Amendment. Or on the 2nd. That covers both sides well. Or go back a little in history and ask about his buddy Charles Keating. He'll always get more air time and respect than he deserves, but thankfully he'll never be more than a senator. Quote QuotePowell - while polls show a great level of respect for the man, voters change their tunes when it's no longer just a answer on the phone, and the GOP in particular doesn't seem likely to vote a black man into the white house. Says who? what differentiates a poll on Powell from other polls? the GOP placed Powell & Condi in positions of great influence, prestige and power. Ideological conformity & winning seem far more prevalent hurdles to GOP (or Dems) acceptance today than race. Powell has broad appeal and could win. There is a wealth of historical data on the subject that shows a polling bias when it comes to race. Most polling is verbal and people are generally trained now not to say they won't vote for a black (or other minority) candidate, even if that's exactly what they plan to do. So when I see a poll released that shows strong support for a Powell or Hillary presidency, I don't take it very seriously. Voters are loathe to "waste their vote" on a loser, but are much more willing to make a statement in polls, or even in the primary. The final election will be the worst example of that. My gut says more than half of Kerry's votes will be votes against Bush...and a good minority of Bush's votes will come from people more afraid of the MA senator than desiring 4 more years of the current administration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #35 May 10, 2004 QuoteI think that when a soldier confesses that he did something he now considers war crimes He is a war criminal, not by what he considers, but by world standards as you say........ QuoteJust consider that the rest of the world, in places that care more about whether someone is an american rather than whether he's a democrat or republican, may not see it as you do. Quotethey are very similar Please tell me how you defend your position with logic. I am REALLY trying to see your point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #36 May 10, 2004 QuoteWould you vote for a candidate that was proven to self inflict wounds to get out of battle? Noone answered the question that I posed in another thread - so I'll ask it directly. I limited the options to disreguard partisanship. It is either yes or no. Vote your concience - not your party. I'd say "no" if it was in fact self-inflicted. I don't really know if that's the case. However, the difference between a minor injury and a fatal wound can sometimes be the difference in turning 10 degrees to the left or right. Luck. I haven't read much into the details behind Kerry's purple hearts but on its face I don't assume that they are illegitimate. Personally, however, I've got friends/soldiers who have been severely crippled and killed who received purple hearts and very much deserved them. No question. I'd be embarassed to stand in front of one of them if I received one for a relatively less severe wound. I certainly wouldn't brag about it to further myself in politics. It discredits those brave souls who really earned it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #37 May 11, 2004 >He is a war criminal, not by what he considers, but by world standards as you say........ Both are. >Please tell me how you defend your position with logic. I am REALLY >trying to see your point. You see one man guilty because he is a democrat, and the other innocent because he is a republican. An outsider is not going to make those distinctions. They are both americans to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #38 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou don't care he murdered unarmed non-combatants. Just as you don't care that this administration presided over the torture, rape and murder of unarmed-combatants. Here, it's fixed."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #39 May 11, 2004 QuoteMcCain got steamrolled by a guy who had a whole lot more "party backing" in terms of machine (not necessarily money). However, if you were to ask Democrats and Independents (who do vote), a large number of them would have voted for McCain. That ought to tell you just how much of a "Republican" John McCain really is. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #40 May 11, 2004 Quote That ought to tell you just how much of a "Republican" John McCain really is. Or how little of an ass-kisser he is. Point of view I guess.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteJust as you don't care that this administration presided over the torture, rape and murder of non-combatants. Gee which is worse, a guy sitting in an office (Bush) while some guy kills innocents, or the guy pulling the trigger (Kerry)... Gee I think the guy that pulls the trigger is worse."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydyvr 0 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteI have heard that whispers are going around to some how make him pull out of the race. My nightmares about Hillary riding in to save the day won't stop until the 2004 DNC is over and done with. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #43 May 11, 2004 QuoteI never mentioned Kerry. It is amusing to me that his name, evidently, is synonomous with something like self inflicted wounds though - odd don't you think? You make a very astute observation. Your original question had no context one way or the other. You've been pre-judged.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #44 May 11, 2004 Quote Your original question had no context one way or the other. Shenanigans! I call shenanigans! Come on, it obviously had a context as I explained in my first reply to the poll. In the current political climate, there is only ONE person to which the question could be applied. The other person never went into battle. He still hasn't answered -my- question of whether or not he thinks this question and hypothetical situation does apply to Kerry. What he may have heard in some rumor mill.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #45 May 11, 2004 Quote Gee which is worse, a guy sitting in an office (Bush) while some guy kills innocents, or the guy pulling the trigger (Kerry)... Gee I think the guy that pulls the trigger is worse. So, lemme get this straight . . . If a guy follows an illegal order yeah, I think we can all agree that's bad, but you think that's worse than a guy that starts an illegitimate war -- a war under false pretense? I dunno Ron. You seem like a pretty smart guy to me, but this one just doesn't make much sense to me.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #46 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuote Your original question had no context one way or the other. Shenanigans! I call shenanigans! Come on, it obviously had a context as I explained in my first reply to the poll. In the current political climate, there is only ONE person to which the question could be applied. The other person never went into battle. He still hasn't answered -my- question of whether or not he thinks this question and hypothetical situation does apply to Kerry. What he may have heard in some rumor mill. Shenanigans back at ya...I don't even know about his question from a previous thread. I've not looked and still, immediately people started trying to defend Kerry. I've been gone alllllllll day, saw this thread and marveled at the "Kerry's gonna, he's gonna, he's my...er...he's not Bush so I like him" style defenses... The question, by itself, means nothing regardless of rumor mill, etc. The context you cite, is context you are introducing. Sheesh... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #47 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuote That ought to tell you just how much of a "Republican" John McCain really is. Or how little of an ass-kisser he is. Point of view I guess. Or maybe if he thinks like a Democrat, acts like a Democrat, speaks like a Democrat, and votes like a Democrat, he ought to just face facts, be a man and BECOME a fucking Democrat. Why is he running around doing everything like a Democrat but calling himself a Republican? My appraisal of it is he IS with the Democrats and remains in the Republican party to fuck them up. He can stand there and say, "Well, I'M a Republican and I'M for the assault weapons ban... I'm a Republican and I'M for [insert wrongheaded socialist Democrat program here]." Then the Dems can get all pious and say, "So why can't the REST of the Republicans be reasonable? John McCain is!" The wonder of it all is that they manage to make themselves think we can't see through this farce. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites boudy 0 #48 May 11, 2004 I don't know where you are getting your information regarding McCain's voting record, but it sounds like the misinformation regularly dished out by a self-serving, draft-dodging junkie wind-bag who lives down Florida way. A little research regarding conservative scoring of congressional voting records provided the following stats: the National Journal rates McCain's Conservative Composite Score at 62. Certainly not on extreme right fringe, but within a few points either way of numerous well known solid Republicans in Congress & well above the most conservative Democrats. For instance in your state of FLorida, 4 Republican Congressmen were in the 62-68 range while the most conservative Democrat was rated at 42. If you follow link below & then click on McCain's name you'll see how McCain is rated by numerous interest groups on a range of topics - examples: 2003 On the votes that the Christian Coalition considered to be the most important in 2003 , Senator McCain voted their preferred position 83 percent of the time. 2003 On the votes that the Eagle Forum considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 73 percent of the time. 2003 On the votes that the Campaign for Working Families considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time. 2003 On the votes that the American Conservative Union considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 75 percent of the time. Your appraisal does not hold up in light of the facts. HE has proven himself many times over to be a man - he has nothing to prove or admit in that regard to us or Rush or any anybody else. Right or wrong, popular or unpopular, with or without the approval of the party hacks, he appears to me to have voted his conscience. Approve or disapprove of his positions as you will, but my appraisal is that you should know what you are talking about before launching such a broad, scathing attack on an honorable guy who has given more than most of us ever will in service to his country. http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=002947M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #49 May 11, 2004 Personally, I am against abortion. I would not have one. That's my CHOICE. However, I believe abortion should remain legal, because others have a right to choose differently. Being pro-choice isn't about encouraging people to have abortions. Its about making sure they have the choice available to them and can make an informed decision for themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jib 0 #50 May 11, 2004 QuoteI don't know where you are getting your information regarding McCain's voting record... Simple, McCain fucked with the second amendment (among other things) and bought into the liberal propaganda that the right can't stand. It makes no difference that most of the time he voted with conservatives. BTW what's Liberman's rating? Also, GWB lives in Texas. I seriously doubt Jeb said anything of the kind. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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peacefuljeffrey 0 #39 May 11, 2004 QuoteMcCain got steamrolled by a guy who had a whole lot more "party backing" in terms of machine (not necessarily money). However, if you were to ask Democrats and Independents (who do vote), a large number of them would have voted for McCain. That ought to tell you just how much of a "Republican" John McCain really is. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #40 May 11, 2004 Quote That ought to tell you just how much of a "Republican" John McCain really is. Or how little of an ass-kisser he is. Point of view I guess.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #41 May 11, 2004 QuoteJust as you don't care that this administration presided over the torture, rape and murder of non-combatants. Gee which is worse, a guy sitting in an office (Bush) while some guy kills innocents, or the guy pulling the trigger (Kerry)... Gee I think the guy that pulls the trigger is worse."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #42 May 11, 2004 QuoteI have heard that whispers are going around to some how make him pull out of the race. My nightmares about Hillary riding in to save the day won't stop until the 2004 DNC is over and done with. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #43 May 11, 2004 QuoteI never mentioned Kerry. It is amusing to me that his name, evidently, is synonomous with something like self inflicted wounds though - odd don't you think? You make a very astute observation. Your original question had no context one way or the other. You've been pre-judged.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #44 May 11, 2004 Quote Your original question had no context one way or the other. Shenanigans! I call shenanigans! Come on, it obviously had a context as I explained in my first reply to the poll. In the current political climate, there is only ONE person to which the question could be applied. The other person never went into battle. He still hasn't answered -my- question of whether or not he thinks this question and hypothetical situation does apply to Kerry. What he may have heard in some rumor mill.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #45 May 11, 2004 Quote Gee which is worse, a guy sitting in an office (Bush) while some guy kills innocents, or the guy pulling the trigger (Kerry)... Gee I think the guy that pulls the trigger is worse. So, lemme get this straight . . . If a guy follows an illegal order yeah, I think we can all agree that's bad, but you think that's worse than a guy that starts an illegitimate war -- a war under false pretense? I dunno Ron. You seem like a pretty smart guy to me, but this one just doesn't make much sense to me.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #46 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuote Your original question had no context one way or the other. Shenanigans! I call shenanigans! Come on, it obviously had a context as I explained in my first reply to the poll. In the current political climate, there is only ONE person to which the question could be applied. The other person never went into battle. He still hasn't answered -my- question of whether or not he thinks this question and hypothetical situation does apply to Kerry. What he may have heard in some rumor mill. Shenanigans back at ya...I don't even know about his question from a previous thread. I've not looked and still, immediately people started trying to defend Kerry. I've been gone alllllllll day, saw this thread and marveled at the "Kerry's gonna, he's gonna, he's my...er...he's not Bush so I like him" style defenses... The question, by itself, means nothing regardless of rumor mill, etc. The context you cite, is context you are introducing. Sheesh... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #47 May 11, 2004 QuoteQuote That ought to tell you just how much of a "Republican" John McCain really is. Or how little of an ass-kisser he is. Point of view I guess. Or maybe if he thinks like a Democrat, acts like a Democrat, speaks like a Democrat, and votes like a Democrat, he ought to just face facts, be a man and BECOME a fucking Democrat. Why is he running around doing everything like a Democrat but calling himself a Republican? My appraisal of it is he IS with the Democrats and remains in the Republican party to fuck them up. He can stand there and say, "Well, I'M a Republican and I'M for the assault weapons ban... I'm a Republican and I'M for [insert wrongheaded socialist Democrat program here]." Then the Dems can get all pious and say, "So why can't the REST of the Republicans be reasonable? John McCain is!" The wonder of it all is that they manage to make themselves think we can't see through this farce. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boudy 0 #48 May 11, 2004 I don't know where you are getting your information regarding McCain's voting record, but it sounds like the misinformation regularly dished out by a self-serving, draft-dodging junkie wind-bag who lives down Florida way. A little research regarding conservative scoring of congressional voting records provided the following stats: the National Journal rates McCain's Conservative Composite Score at 62. Certainly not on extreme right fringe, but within a few points either way of numerous well known solid Republicans in Congress & well above the most conservative Democrats. For instance in your state of FLorida, 4 Republican Congressmen were in the 62-68 range while the most conservative Democrat was rated at 42. If you follow link below & then click on McCain's name you'll see how McCain is rated by numerous interest groups on a range of topics - examples: 2003 On the votes that the Christian Coalition considered to be the most important in 2003 , Senator McCain voted their preferred position 83 percent of the time. 2003 On the votes that the Eagle Forum considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 73 percent of the time. 2003 On the votes that the Campaign for Working Families considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 89 percent of the time. 2003 On the votes that the American Conservative Union considered to be the most important in 2003, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 75 percent of the time. Your appraisal does not hold up in light of the facts. HE has proven himself many times over to be a man - he has nothing to prove or admit in that regard to us or Rush or any anybody else. Right or wrong, popular or unpopular, with or without the approval of the party hacks, he appears to me to have voted his conscience. Approve or disapprove of his positions as you will, but my appraisal is that you should know what you are talking about before launching such a broad, scathing attack on an honorable guy who has given more than most of us ever will in service to his country. http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=002947M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #49 May 11, 2004 Personally, I am against abortion. I would not have one. That's my CHOICE. However, I believe abortion should remain legal, because others have a right to choose differently. Being pro-choice isn't about encouraging people to have abortions. Its about making sure they have the choice available to them and can make an informed decision for themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #50 May 11, 2004 QuoteI don't know where you are getting your information regarding McCain's voting record... Simple, McCain fucked with the second amendment (among other things) and bought into the liberal propaganda that the right can't stand. It makes no difference that most of the time he voted with conservatives. BTW what's Liberman's rating? Also, GWB lives in Texas. I seriously doubt Jeb said anything of the kind. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
