base283 0 #1 May 6, 2004 Interesting take. any comments? take care, space clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crzjp20 0 #2 May 6, 2004 already a thread on this......-------------------------------------------------- Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #3 May 6, 2004 show me please, I can´t find it. thanks in advance, take care, space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crzjp20 0 #4 May 6, 2004 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1064824;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread-------------------------------------------------- Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #5 May 6, 2004 He probably means THIS THREAD. Titled "American Torture in Iraq" You two can argue about whether this deserves it's own new thread or not.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #6 May 6, 2004 Try clicking on the "clicky" and you will see that this has not been posted. I am aware of the other posts you and you refer to. Any comments? take care, space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #7 May 6, 2004 The New York Times (I think) had a great article this morning about a psychological study done at Stanford in 1971 where students were recruited to role play prison inmates and prison guards -- and then left to their own devices without supervision. The results of the study showed the EXACT abuses that the US guards committed. It was really striking how the study mirrored what happened in Iraq. This doesn't excuse what happened, but it does show that what happened isn't unusual where people are inadequately trained and supervised. BTW, they stopped doing further studies because they deemed them unethical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #8 May 6, 2004 I'd be willing to bet that you can find those kinds of abuses in prisons all over the world--not just in the US. The Stanford study was very interesting. Even well educated, "nice", upper class kids reverted to being animals in a simulation of the modern prison environment. There has to be a better way, but for the life of me I've got no idea what it is.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #9 May 6, 2004 I think the Stanford study was cut short. Some prophet once said something about "absolute power corrupts absolutely" (Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887. 'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men'.) hmmmmmm, interesting take care and thanks for clicking on my first clicky "clicky". I was posting foot long URLs before.. space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #10 May 6, 2004 I'm actually reading a book right now (very slowly) about torture in Brazilian prisons during the dictatorship years. There is a huge amount of data (largely anectodal, obviously), interviews both with prisoners and with guards and torturers. At least in the author's opionion (based on all the interviews), it seems to come from the top. The pressure to get the desired behavior and confessions from the prisoners is more important to the guards doing the guarding than the protection of those same prisoners. Obviously Brazil during the 60's and 70's is not the same as the US troops in Iraq. But if soldiers are allowed to let their feelings take over, and reminded of how buddies of theirs have died or been tortured at the hands of people like these prisoners, it becomes easier to understand. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #11 May 7, 2004 "it becomes easier to understand." I'm sure you'll agree that it doesn't become any easier to accept.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #12 May 7, 2004 Oh No! A nation that abuses its own people. A nation that admits to having WMDs. A nation that has invaded its neighbors. Clearly it needs to be invaded by an army of liberation!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #13 May 7, 2004 QuoteI'm sure you'll agree that it doesn't become any easier to accept. Absolutively unacceptable. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #14 May 7, 2004 QuoteI'd be willing to bet that you can find those kinds of abuses in prisons all over the world--not just in the US. The Stanford study was very interesting. Even well educated, "nice", upper class kids reverted to being animals in a simulation of the modern prison environment. This is totally scary that I or you (collective), that If I / you had that much power, we would certainly go this route. I thought I had more control over me. BUT when I think of it, most of the Monsters had public support giving power in the beginning for them to have the ability to go to the dark side later. hmmmmmmm take care space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
