Tuition Breaks for Illegal Immigrants

[Kennedy 0]

edit: found HERE

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Kansas Gov. to sign illegal immigrants tuition bill
Wednesday, May 5, 2004 Posted: 10:36 AM EDT (1436 GMT)

TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- A bill offering some illegal immigrants a tuition break at Kansas' public colleges and universities cleared the Legislature on Tuesday and headed to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, who plans to sign it.

The House voted 68-54 for the measure, which won Senate passage earlier this year.

The proposal extends in-state tuition -- which is much lower than tuition for nonresidents -- to illegal immigrants who have attended a Kansas high school at least three years and graduated or who earned a general educational development certificate in Kansas.

To receive the lower tuition, an immigrant would have to be actively seeking legal immigration status or plan to do so when eligible.

Proponents contended that many of the immigrants who will benefit have lived and attended schools in Kansas for years and intend to remain in the state.

Opponents argued that the proposal would reward lawbreakers and perhaps even aid terrorists.

"If terrorists come to get a pilot's license at a Kansas university, at least we gave them in-state tuition before they used it against us," Rep. Scott Schwab, a Republican, said sarcastically, drawing boos from some in the chamber.

Kansas residents pay much less than students from outside the state at public universities. In the current semester, for example, in-state tuition for 15 credit hours at Kansas State University is $1,755, compared to $5,700 for undergraduates from other states.

OK, I'm sorry, driver's licenses were bad enough, but giving them tuition breaks? WTF? They're here illegally! If the government finds an illegal, aren't they supposed to arrest them or something, not give them breaks other US citizens can't even get?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Gawain 0]

Well, hopefully Kathleen Sebelius is up for election defeat this November. This was a major factor that got Gov. Davis in California recalled.

What's worse, is simply that an out-of-state person can claim to be an illegal alien to get the break if they have the wherewithal to do it.

What a bunch of dumbasses...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,148]

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Well, hopefully Kathleen Sebelius is up for election defeat this November. This was a major factor that got Gov. Davis in California recalled.

What's worse, is simply that an out-of-state person can claim to be an illegal alien to get the break if they have the wherewithal to do it.

What a bunch of dumbasses...

If employers didn't hire them, they wouldn't be here in the first place.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pajarito 0]

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If employers didn't hire them, they wouldn't be here in the first place.

How true.
That bill is still pretty screwed up, though.

[Gawain 0]

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If employers didn't hire them, they wouldn't be here in the first place.

If they could get a job in Mexico or wherever they're from, they wouldn't create the supply, which is equally enticing to employers.

It still doesn't justify this bill.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Nightingale 0]

Personally, I'd say that to qualify for in state tuition, an immigrant should:

have to have a 3.0 in high school. Attend a four year college.

the government should: for these students, who have proven their academic ability, fast track them to citizenship the summer after high school.

that way, they can go to college as citizens, and when they graduate, they have the ability to support themselves and not be on welfare, AND they're now a citizen and are paying taxes back in to the system that just helped them out.

immigrants are going to be here regardless. and, they bring their very young kids with them. the kids grow up going through our school system. some of them are very good students. BUT, then, after high school, they can't go any further. They're not eligible for government stafford loans, so basically, they're screwed, and so is society.

sure, you might say that it encourages illegal immigrants to bring their kids and immigrate... not really... maintaining a 3.0 in high school, especially if you're an immigrant and don't speak the language, is not an easy thing to do. immigrants would rapidly learn that they couldn't rely on this program as an easy way to citizenship.

[Ron 10]

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Personally, I'd say that to qualify for in state tuition, an immigrant should:

have to have a 3.0 in high school. Attend a four year college.

Problem is you will have people say that a 3.0 is unrealistic and why do we have a double standard for immigrants and citizens? (I think that the only right an ILLEGAL immigrant has is a free trip back home, but thats another story.)

Before I get roasted...I'm all about people coming here LEGALLY...And I think they should be able to speak English before they get citizenship.

But to give rights to illegal immigrants that are normally reserved for citizens is nuts.

So in this case a person who came here illegally has more rights than a citizen of another state?

Thats really stupid.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

the thing is... the 3.0 average wouldn't be a different standard... it wouldn't be a standard to go to a university, it would be a standard to earn a fast track to citizenship, where they can THEN have the rights of a citizen and attend college at the in-state resident rate.

[Ron 10]

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the thing is... the 3.0 average wouldn't be a different standard... it wouldn't be a standard to go to a university, it would be a standard to earn a fast track to citizenship, where they can THEN have the rights of a citizen and attend college at the in-state resident rate.

I thought you were talking about letting them get an instate tuition if they have a 3.0 or better in high school...In that case it IS a double standard since citizens don't have to have a 3.0 in that state.

And you realize that people would oppose it saying it was unfair to expect an immigrant to do that well?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

If they don't qualify for the 3.0 thing, the regular avenues to citizenship are still open to them. The 3.0 reasoning is that if they maintain a 3.0 in high school, they have already proven their ability to be a productive member of society.

[Ron 10]

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If they don't qualify for the 3.0 thing, the regular avenues to citizenship are still open to them. The 3.0 reasoning is that if they maintain a 3.0 in high school, they have already proven their ability to be a productive member of society.

You seem to be missing my main point..And that is that people will say that a 3.0 is to high, and unfair.

Personally if they are her illegally I say ship them back, and let them try to enter legally. GPA be damned.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

the thing is... the process to immigrate legally is so convoluted that they'll just be back here illegally. it's much more economical to make them citizens so we can tax them.

[Ron 10]

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the thing is... the process to immigrate legally is so convoluted that they'll just be back here illegally. it's much more economical to make them citizens so we can tax them.

The right thing is not always easy....the easy way is seldom right.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

so many people complain about "the strain that illegal immigrants put on our society". If we make it easier for people to become citizens, they put less of a strain on society, because they pay back into the system, and are eligible for things such as student loans, which help them become productive, TAXPAYING members of the community.

What's better? having a 4.0 high school student be unable to go to college, and end up on welfare or working at McDonalds, or fast tracking that same student to citizenship, giving them the student loans they need, and having them become a biochemist or engineer?

[chuckbrown 0]

Illegal immigrants are a major source of labor in the US. Your food prices would be much higher if producers didn't have this source of cheap labor. So they do benefit the country and they benefit by making more money than they could ever make in their home country. Also, they generally perform jobs that Americans don't want, so US citizens aren't losing employment opportunities. I think encouraging them to go to school is great. They'll be more productive. I'd rather pay to see them go to school than pay for their welfare benefits.

Besides, who here isn't descended from illegal immigrants? Since our forefathers took this land by force from the natives, doesn't that mean we're all illegal immigrants? Just getting stirring the pot.

[Ron 10]

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so many people complain about "the strain that illegal immigrants put on our society". If we make it easier for people to become citizens, they put less of a strain on society, because they pay back into the system, and are eligible for things such as student loans, which help them become productive, TAXPAYING members of the community.

They also become elligable for welfare.

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What's better? having a 4.0 high school student be unable to go to college, and end up on welfare or working at McDonalds, or fast tracking that same student to citizenship, giving them the student loans they need, and having them become a biochemist or engineer?

If they are illegal, they will not collect welfare.

Im all about helping people do things LEGALLY...My opinion someone who is in the country illegally does not have the same rights as a citizen.

To allow illegal immigrants the ability to have BETTER benefits than a citizen, thats just stupid.

Letting a person who is in the countrt illegally from Mexico have a lower tuition than an American citizen from another state is nuts.

And my whole point is that you plan would not work...People whould say you are expecting to much from them...that a 3.0 is to hard and an unrealistic expectation for an illegal immigrant.

I understand the need for the low cost labor. However if we grant citizenship to everyone that wants it our tax revenue will go up, but so will our welfare costs go up.

Simple statement...You are in the country illegally you don't have, nor should you have, the same or better rights than a citizen.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

I agree that someone who is illegal should not pay in-state tuition, because as an illegal, they are not technically a "resident" of that state. they are a resident of their home country, and therefore ineligible.

the problem is, that by denying qualified candidates the opportunity to get an education, you create more of a strain on the system. If they've proved that they're qualified, there's no reason to deny citizenship.

[chuckbrown 0]

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If they are illegal, they will not collect welfare.

If they have kids, you better believe they'll be able to collect welfare benefits.

They're going to be here, so it makes sense to have a public policy that makes them more productive persons even if they're not citizens.

[chuckbrown 0]

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I agree that someone who is illegal should not pay in-state tuition, because as an illegal, they are not technically a "resident" of that state. they are a resident of their home country, and therefore ineligible.

Residency (also called domicile) and citizenship are two different concepts. You can be a citizen of a foreign country, but you're a resident of whereever you're living. If I go live in France, I'm still an American citizen, but I reside in France. Home is where the hat is. Hey, I remembered something from my conflict of laws class, woohoo.

[Ron 10]

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I agree that someone who is illegal should not pay in-state tuition, because as an illegal, they are not technically a "resident" of that state. they are a resident of their home country, and therefore ineligible.

Agreed.

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the problem is, that by denying qualified candidates the opportunity to get an education, you create more of a strain on the system. If they've proved that they're qualified, there's no reason to deny citizenship.

This bill says nothing about "qualified canidates" Any illegal immigrant with any GPA above passing will benefit, while a hard working kid in the next state will not.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

but you'd have to do something in france to be declared a legal "resident" there, just like you have to go through a process to gain "residency" here.

[rehmwa 2]

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...People whould say you are expecting to much from them...that a 3.0 is to hard and an unrealistic expectation for an illegal immigrant.

A 3.0 for an illegal immigrant is not hard at all. Teachers will give them a free pass in their grades to 'save' them.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Nightingale 0]

I know, which is why I don't favor this bill.

Amend/Alter the process of becoming a citizen instead.

[Nightingale 0]

BAH!

I was a teacher. No kid in my class got any grade other than what they EARNED.

That goes for the vast majority of teachers out there. It may encourage the teachers to spend more time tutoring the students, but, for the most part, if a kid can't demonstrate basic knowledge of the subject, especially in high school, where social promotion is not nearly as much of an issue, the teacher won't pass them.

[chuckbrown 0]

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but you'd have to do something in france to be declared a legal "resident" there, just like you have to go through a process to gain "residency" here.

All you have to do is live there (or here) to establish residency (or more precisely do all of the things that one normally associates with where you are living). Now if you don't have legal residency status, the immigration authorities can kick you out once you've overstayed your visa. But you are still a resident, albiet an illegal resident. If you're saying that you can't get in-state tuition unless you have legal residency, then that sort of makes the bill moot because it only addresses illegals aliens (people who don't have legal residency status). I think what the bill is saying is that if you are a resident (but an illegal one) you should get tuition assistance.