Gun Proofing Children

[Jimbo 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119023,00.html

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[AggieDave 6]

You know, I was raised that way. I was raised in a household with more then...well, I'm not going to tell you a number, lets just say "more then 1 or 2."

I went shooting with my dad as well.

Was there ever an incident in my house? Nope.
Did I ever even touch one of those weapons without my dad? Nope.
Did I know how to check all of those different weapons to see if it was loaded? Yup.
Was a "gun" ever considered a toy to me? Hell no. Its a tool, I've known that ever since I was a very little kid.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wmw999 2,600]

My son was raised in a house with guns, and that's pretty much the way he was raised, too. A gun is a tool; you can learn how to use it for its purpose (hunting, in our case), and practice (gun range), but other than that it's no more interesting than a hammer.

But you can never gunproof kids. You can gun-resist them, but not gunproof, because kids are inherently unpredictable. So you have to kidproof the guns instead. How a family chooses to do that will depend on the parents, the kids, and the guns. And I sure hope that they choose correctly for all kids who come visit their house.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[nacmacfeegle 0]

From the article
"Most experts recommend storing guns unloaded and in a locked case."
The hypertext links point to futher recommendations to keep the ammunition separately and also locked.

Doesn't this kinda go against keeping the weapon in the house for the purposes of self defence?

Carry them, use them for sporting, take photos of your girlfriends holding them, I don't really care what you guys do, I'm just trying to wade through the mire of fuzzy reasoning.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[BikerBabe 0]

I'm all for education. The problem is, many people don't have guns, don't know about them, or don't care enough to teach their kids gun safety.

I agree with Wendy here. You can raise your kids with guns and all the knowledge in the world about them, but then one day the neighbor kid comes over, finds a loaded gun, and shoots your kid with it because he thinks it's a cool toy. You can't raise that neighbor kid, and you can't assume that your neighbor taught them proper gun safety.

So it's back to kid-proofing the guns.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[steve1 5]

I've been teaching a gun safety class in the school I work at this week. I think it can help save lives. I'd also like school kids to go home and tell their parents to lock their guns up to make their home safer place. There's lot's of derelick parents out there that don't take gun ownership very seriously.

I too grew up with lot's of guns. I was lucky because gun safety was drilled into my head since day one. A lot of kids don't know the dangers and people die or are hurt because of it. I think the NRA also teaches gun safety in schools. I think this is good.....Steve1

[Jimbo 0]

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I'd also like school kids to go home and tell their parents to lock their guns up to make their home safer place.

Safer until they're needed.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[JohnRich 4]

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From the article
"Most experts recommend storing guns unloaded and in a locked case."

Doesn't this kinda go against keeping the weapon in the house for the purposes of self defence?

There are ways to accomplish both goals: keeping the self-defense handgun away from children, as well as keeping it readily accessable, loaded, and ready to use.

For Example

Many of these types of handgun safes are designed with an electronic keypad that can be operated with the fingers in the dark, so there is no fumbling for keys, or the possibility of the kids getting the keys.

Would you be in favor of a tax deduction for the purchase of such a safe to help keep children safe?

[steve1 5]

I have to admit I've always had a gun or two not locked up in my own house for self defense purposes. After all what good is it if it takes too long to get it out when you need it.

At the same time this can be a real danger. A friend of mine used to keep a 9mm. on his head board with a round in the chamber. One day his cat nocked it over and it landed on something solid. It went off shooting my friend through the head. Yes, it killed him.

I went into another guys house a while back who had guns all over his house, with a bullets in the barrel of each. He also had several kids. I guess his plan was to teach his kids never to touch his guns or they were in big trouble. This sounded a little crazy though because kids usually have friends come over who don't know gun safety and are likely to pick one up.

Once when my kids were little, we were moving. I had placed my 357 in my pickup. I had to run back in the house and left my daughter unattended for a few minutes. When I came back she had the pistol out of the holster and was holding it in her lap. It was fully loaded, and it scared the hell out of me thinking about what might have happened. I swore I wouldn't let that happen again. I think we all get careless at times......Steve1

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Seems plenty of us here were raised with a knowledge of guns. My history is kinda weird in that respect.

I was raised in a household that had exactly one firearm: my older brother's .22 bolt-action rifle.

My dad had had a .410 shotgun when he was a kid, he tells me, but in his adult life he has never owned his own firearm. However, I remember him taking me to an outdoor shooting range on Long Island when I was in elementary school, and I had a great time firing at paper targets for a few hours. I even brought those targets to school to show off to my friends.

My brother had the interest in guns and knives in my family. I got my interest from him (he was a big role model for me) and I took it and ran with it. I now own more guns and more knives than he ever has, and I spend more time on the issue, reading, learning and discussing.

So I wouldn't say I was "brought up around guns" in the traditional sense that so many were, where guns, hunting and shooting were a family thing. My family neither eschewed nor embraced guns. But my (late) mom, my dad, my sister, my brother, and I all have no problem with guns, and support gun ownership. (I ended up being militantly pro-gun, as opposed to the more-moderate rest of my family.)

I was taught to use guns safely by my brother, who gave me my first BB gun for either my 8th or 9th birthday. It was a spring-powered Marksman pistol, the one that looks like a .45 (1911) and I'm happy to say that I still have it! The thing is more than 20 years old!

My brother had had an interest in small game hunting when he was 16 or so. I remember that he got a small game hunting license one year, and also joined the NRA. When I bought my first firearm in 1993 I also joined the NRA, and I used the easy-pay life member plan to become a Life Member by paying in installments. I'm proud to belong to an organization that sponsors gun safety training when so many anti-gun groups go around calling themselves "gun safety organizations." They're full of shit, and the only people speaking the truth about guns these days are the NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO, etc.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[newsstand 0]

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I'd also like school kids to go home and tell their parents to lock their guns up to make their home safer place.

Safer until they're needed.

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Jim

So do you walk around the house with you gun strapped to your hip just in case the bad guys break in at any moment?

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[newsstand 0]

This concept makes a ton of sense.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[JohnRich 4]

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This concept makes a ton of sense.

Yep, and since people like to cry that child firearm deaths are an epidemic, then it ought to be worth a tax break to encourage gun-owning parents to buy a quick-access gun safe to help keep the kiddies secure.

The anti-gun folks like to say, when promoting new gun control laws; "If it will save just one life, it will be worth it!" Well, the same phrase could apply here.

I want Congress to pass a law providing for a direct tax deduction, of up to, say, $200, for purchase of a home gun safe. Receipt required to claim the deduction. Not a reduction of taxable income, but a direct write-off of payable tax.

I bought one of these for my gun-owning son, to help keep my granddaughters safe.

[diablopilot 2]

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But you can never gunproof kids.

Cut their thumbs off.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 3,131]

>Cut their thumbs off.

But then they'd still have fingers. You could just make them wear mittens without thumbs for, say, the first 18 years of their lives. It woudld keep them out of a lot of other trouble too!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

The article also mentioned keeping the guns unloaded and the ammo separate, in a similarly secure safe type box.
Edit to add>
I quote from the gun safety page hyperlinked to in the fox article.
"FOLLOW BASIC RULES OF GUN SAFETY. If you have a gun at home, store it properly. A properly stored gun is one that is:

Unloaded
Locked in a gun safe or strongbox or other secured container. (Carry the key with you or keep it in a secure place).
Stored separately from ammunition (which is locked away).
Out of sight and reach of children."

Which, in my mind defeats the argument for keeping a firearm in the house for the purpose of self defence.


"Would you be in favor of a tax deduction for the purchase of such a safe to help keep children safe?"

Not at all John, I'd rather not see weapons in the home at all, therefore a tax penalty might be in order, along with enforcement of the lockups for storage as part of a license agreement between the authorities and the owners. This was actually the case here for a while, ammo and firearms had to be kept under lock and key as part of the license requirements. Failure to comply could result in the suspension of the license. This was enforced with spot insepections etc. I know this is against your views on gun registration etc, but you did ask what my opinion on this was.
Culturally, here in the UK, we don't seem to have the same predeliction for firearms as our brothers and sisters across the pond. Firearm onwership was seen as a priveledge, not a constitutional right.
I'm guessing this cultural difference is some sort of throwback to the pioneer spirit that I suspect still exists in the US. This spirit is actually one of the things I like about the US, its a 'can do' approach, and is reflected in good things like your space programme, and other technological advances. We have a much more 'laisser faire' attitude to crime suppression, IE we rely much more heavily on our police and the vigilance of our fellow citizens to defend us.

I think we'd both agree that we shouldn't have to possess firearms to defend ourselves against attackers, but sadly society all over just isn't like that.

Personally I think the risks to my family might be increased by me possessing and keeping a firearm, ready to use, say adjacent to the main door, but that is just based on my personal circumstances. Its a risk assessment every potential gun owner should undertake. Where I live (a small village with about 700 pop, tucked away in the foothills of the Grampian mountains), I just don't see that many armed agressors forcing entry into an occupied property. Our crooks tend to take the easier options of entering unattended homes, and I have insurance to mitigate that risk, its only stuff after all.

Like I said earlier, I'm pretty ambivalent over gun ownership, I don't actually believe an awful lot of people here would own firearms based on a personal security risk, I reckon its more of a sporting thing, guns are cool, and firing them on a range, or out hunting is fun.
Owning weapons as part of a militia type defence against either your own government, or invading redcoats is just risible in this day and age.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[JohnRich 4]

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I'd rather not see weapons in the home at all...

...we shouldn't have to possess firearms to defend ourselves against attackers, but sadly society all over just isn't like that.

Don't those two statements seem contradictory to you? You recognize that the world isn't always a safe place to live, and yet you don't want anyone to be able to have the means to defend themselves against thugs. That's goofy.

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We have a much more 'laisser faire' attitude to crime suppression, IE we rely much more heavily on our police and the vigilance of our fellow citizens to defend us.

And you have higher violent crime rates than the U.S. And since you confiscated handguns and semi-auto long guns, your gun crime has gone up. Meanwhile, in the U.S., there are more guns than ever, and gun crime has gone down 10 years in a row. So it seems to me that the trends indicate that you guys are taking the wrong approach.

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Personally I think the risks to my family might be increased by me possessing and keeping a firearm, ready to use, say adjacent to the main door, but that is just based on my personal circumstances. Its a risk assessment every potential gun owner should undertake.

Bingo! It should be a matter of individual freedom and personal choice. However, in the U.K., your government has removed both the freedom, and the personal choice.

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Where I live (a small village with about 700 pop, tucked away in the foothills of the Grampian mountains), I just don't see that many armed agressors forcing entry into an occupied property.

Not everyone is as lucky to live in a safe place as you. If there were frequent home invasions of occupied homes, wouldn't you feel a bit scared and helpless?

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Our crooks tend to take the easier options of entering unattended homes

Only 13% of U.S. burglaries are to occupied homes. In Britain, where there are no guns in homes, 56% of all attempted burglaries are to occupied homes. Thus, Brits are far more likely to face a violent confrontation with a young, strong intruder - because the criminals are not deterred by the threat of armed homeowners.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Stats aside John, and yes, I am lucky to live where I do. I'd be glad to reciprocate the Texas hospitality that I received a while back, if ever you are passing by. We'd have a beer and put the world to rights.
""FOLLOW BASIC RULES OF GUN SAFETY. If you have a gun at home, store it properly. A properly stored gun is one that is:

Unloaded
Locked in a gun safe or strongbox or other secured container. (Carry the key with you or keep it in a secure place).
Stored separately from ammunition (which is locked away).
Out of sight and reach of children."

I still don't see how the mechanics of following recommended responsible gun onwership stack up in the home/personal defence discussion.

For what its worth, I have no problem with responsible gun ownership, its just that I personally don't require that level of security. I don't particularly like them, but recognise they can serve a useful purpose.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[JohnRich 4]

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""FOLLOW BASIC RULES OF GUN SAFETY. If you have a gun at home, store it properly. A properly stored gun is one that is:

Unloaded
Locked in a gun safe or strongbox or other secured container. (Carry the key with you or keep it in a secure place).
Stored separately from ammunition (which is locked away).
Out of sight and reach of children."

I still don't see how the mechanics of following recommended responsible gun onwership stack up in the home/personal defence discussion.

One size solutions like this one don't fit the many different circumstances of home gun ownership.

When I was raising my kids, the guns were disabled. I wasn't willing to risk them playing with the guns when I wasn't around, in order to make ready an armed home defense.

Now that my kids are grown up and I live alone, there is no concern of kids handling the guns. If I have visitors, the guns are locked up. When I leave the house, they're locked up. Otherwise, they're immediately available for self-defense. And there's nothing unsafe about this scheme.

Different strokes for different folks.

No one has the right to tell me I shouldn't be able to defend myself if I'm attacked in my home.

[fundgh 0]

Anything wrong with keeping a gun readily accessible with a loaded magazine equally accessible but not in the weapon? I don't have kids to worry about yet, and I like having a weapon accessible in my house, but if I have to run to the bedroom to get it, I would surely have the time to insert the magazine and ready the weapon. I have yet to come up with a preferred method of storing my defense weapon, and I am always open to ideas that make it as safe as effectively possible, and accessible.

...FUN FOR ALL!

[JohnRich 4]

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Anything wrong with keeping a gun readily accessible with a loaded magazine equally accessible but not in the weapon? I don't have kids to worry about yet, and I like having a weapon accessible in my house, but if I have to run to the bedroom to get it, I would surely have the time to insert the magazine and ready the weapon. I have yet to come up with a preferred method of storing my defense weapon, and I am always open to ideas that make it as safe as effectively possible, and accessible.

Since you don't have children to worry about, that should work fine. Even leaving the magazine in the gun should be okay.

I would just recommend locking it up when you leave the residence, to protect it from theft by burglary.

I have a bedroom closet with a deadbolt on it, and the loaded self-defense gun is in that closet. My practice is to unlock that closet when I get home, leaving my keys dangling from that lock. That way, the gun is available if I need it, and when I leave the house, I have to go to that door to get my keys, thereby reminding me to lock it before I leave. It's a simple developed habit and procedure, and it works for me. And I always know where my keys are!

There are home gun safes that can be had for under $200, that offer instant access, as well as anti-theft and anti-meddling security.