vmsfreaky1 0 #1 May 4, 2004 http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/03/1083436541739.html?from=top5 "just nonsense" they say.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #2 May 4, 2004 I'm pretty much disgusted by this, but my freedom of speech loving side of me says if some worthless SOB wants to print this, let them. If some jackass can call a man who voted 26 of 28 times in favor of minority judges can be called a racist by fucking morons, morons should also be able to say bad things about Israel whilst ignoring other pertinent facts like the cowards they are. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #3 May 4, 2004 How many of the "facts" are true or false?"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #4 May 4, 2004 It just points out some true facts. Isreal is just as willing to kill to hold on to the so called "holy land" as the Palestinians are willing to send their children out to blow themselves up. I really don't see any "good guys" in any part of that whole situation. I don't think it was right to create the Isreali state and does not reflect in any way the morality that is taught in the jewish religion. On the other hand the Palestinians are not any better and in some ways worse then the Isrealis. Holy land? more like bloody land. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #5 May 4, 2004 QuoteIt just points out some true facts. Isreal is just as willing to kill to hold on to the so called "holy land" as the Palestinians are willing to send their children out to blow themselves up. I really don't see any "good guys" in any part of that whole situation. I don't think it was right to create the Isreali state and does not reflect in any way the morality that is taught in the jewish religion. On the other hand the Palestinians are not any better and in some ways worse then the Isrealis. Holy land? more like bloody land. Agreed. Well, I agree that there is no "good guys" in this situation. I've tried to follow the recent history and the history of Israel from 1948 to present, I don't see how either side can justify all of their actions. As for the holy land - Seems that it has been prophesied that when The Lord wants a people to take control of it, he provides a way. I don't think there is a path yet....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 May 4, 2004 QuoteAs for the holy land - Seems that it has been prophesied that when The Lord wants a people to take control of it, he provides a way. I don't think there is a path yet.... Specifically speaking about Jerusalem, the way for all parties involved to stop trying to control it. By releasing their demands for control, the people that the "Holy Land" is truly valuable to (spiritual followers) will be able to make the path of peace. Barring that kind of awakening, I side with the Israelis.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #7 May 4, 2004 Quotebut my freedom of speech loving side of me says if some worthless SOB wants to print this, let them. i agree, people should be allowed to say whatever they want, even crap like this. but th city of Melbourne shouldnt be supporting it... as for these "facts", give me a break or at least open a history book... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #8 May 4, 2004 QuoteI don't think it was right to create the Isreali state oh thank you, i'm so happy no one asked you "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #9 May 4, 2004 I'm always amused by this whole 'good guys' 'bad guys' thing. No situation in this world is ever black and white. As for this 'Art' well, if there is back up of the 'facts' published I don't see what the problem is. Its not anti jewish as far as I can see.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 May 4, 2004 Seems anti-Israel, not anti-Jew to me. And it hapens to be true. Doesn't mean I think that Israel should be dissolved, or something ridiculous like that. But I don't see anything wrong with someone stating facts in support of their viewso on an issue. I'm a block away from the Israeli embassy. On a monthly basis there are 2 groups on opposite corners yelling at each otehr. One group is chanting anti-terrorism, pro Bush stuff. The other group is chanting anti-occupation, pro-palistinian righs stuff. And ALL of them are jewish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #11 May 4, 2004 Personally, I don't believe in government funding of art. If it can't stand on its own financially, someone's doing something wrong. GOOD ballet and opera can be profitable. Ditto with good paintings and sculpture. There's no reason for the government to subsidize bad or unpopular "art" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #12 May 4, 2004 You are making an assumption it is "unpopular" over there. If the art is just like the poster, and most people are like him, then it should be pretty popular."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #13 May 4, 2004 No... I'm saying that if the art is popular, it shouldn't need to be subsidized, and if the art is bad, there's no reason to subsidize it. Whether its popular or not, the government shouldn't be wasting tax dollars paying for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #14 May 4, 2004 at most (and really streching it), these "facts" are partial and not accurate. not to mention that they lack the context of historical events... Quote 200,000 Palestinians have been killed i've never heard such a number, nor anything close to it. Quote5,000,000 refugees again, the number is absurd, there werent 5,000,000 total here when israel was founded... but yes there are refugees , the result of a war THEY have started. further more, after 1948 there were millions of jewish arabs who were driven out of their homes and were refugees in israel. you know what's the difference? they are no longer refugees because israel took care of them, the arab countries chose to keep their refugees in camps for political gain... Quote21,000 square kilometres of land has been annexed. the west bank and gaza were never annexed to israel. palestinians who remained in israel when it was founded got israeli citizenship. the only part that was annexed was the eastern part of old jerusalem in 1967. Quote385 towns and villages have been destroyed maybe, i don't know the number but yes, villages has been destroyed in the wars. wars that they started after rejecting the division plan. and i'm pretty sure no jewish village or town would have survived if this war was lost... Quote100+ WMD's have been manufactured i would guess more, but whats that has to do with palestinians? i dont know whats the purpose of this display (probably just to get some idiot publicity), its hardly art... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #15 May 4, 2004 Well, I actually didn't sit down and evaluate the figures. Even so, I still don't see it as being anti-Jewish as much as being anti-Israel. Quote dont know whats the purpose of this display (probably just to get some idiot publicity), its hardly art... Many artists create works specifically to create controversy and conversation. To invoke people to think about things. Who knows, maybe the creator deliberately inflated the numbers just so people would have something to argue over. Saying something is hardly art is like telling someone that their opinion hardly matters, or that their beliefs are hardly a religion. Art is a subjective thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #16 May 4, 2004 Ori, I understand your frustration with the constant display of anti-semitic rethoric, by people who want to sound very tolerant and smart by disguissing that as something else. They don't understand that your very survival depends on how you hold these muslim extremists (affectionately called by me as towel heads), and how to contend the war that has spread througout the world as a big islamic movement. Instead of condemning Hammas, whose charter is a vow to kill or eradicate every jewisw of their land, they prefer to condemn the selective killing of their leaders and label it as "assassination". They discount the efforts by Rabbin to bring peace to the region by giving them land, they claim you "occupied" land, because you refused to settle in 4 wars with your arab neighbors, beat the crap out of them in an uncalled war by your part, and held territory that otherwise would not be in your possession. It is laughable that all the world foes now lies between US and Israel, and these bigots are trying to call time out. Apparently the latest European fad is also forgetting to what happened over there My 2 cts and power to you."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #17 May 4, 2004 QuoteNo... I'm saying that if the art is popular, it shouldn't need to be subsidized, and if the art is bad, there's no reason to subsidize it. Whether its popular or not, the government shouldn't be wasting tax dollars paying for it. Micky Hart of the Grateful Dead has a project called Planet Drum. He travels the world to small, dying tribes and out of the way places to find unique percussion instruments and original rythms. He records this music, this art. It's now stored in the Smithsonian. It's not very popular, not on the Billboard charts. But I support the taxpayer funds being used to preserve this art that would otherwise be lost to the world very soon. Art is a cultural necessity. Poor people can't afford to go to the ballet or the orchestra. So, I guess they should never be exposed to it? I'm not saying give them a season pass to the Philharmonic. But publc programs that take kids to the orchestra or the museum are important to expand young people's perceptions and imaginations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #18 May 4, 2004 Public programs that take kids to theatre or art is fine. Directly subsidizing the theatre company or artist to put on a show, to me, is not ok. Its just the government handing money to the artist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #19 May 4, 2004 QuoteEven so, I still don't see it as being anti-Jewish as much as being anti-Israel. i never said it was "anti- jewish" actually the title of this article is "Row over anti-Israel art display", i dont know why the original poster of this thread made it "jewish art" as for being art, i agree. i was expressing my own opinion. i just dont see anything in it that would match my definition of art, not in skill nor in concept. jusr a vulgar piece created to gain publicity in the easiest way (even if these "facts" were true, which they aren't) O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #20 May 4, 2004 sorry, but i'm not frustrated by this... and i don't see it as anti semitic either. yes, this "display" is full of lies and twisted facts, but still i support the "artist" right to display it. its the city who sponsered it i have a problem with becuase they should consider their audience too. maybe this artist should change the title to "Colonizing australia and the fate of the natives who were there first..." i'm sure the numbers would be closer to reality... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #21 May 5, 2004 Historically art is government subsidized. With out the king, queen, church or some other patron much of the great art and music of the past would never have been created. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #22 May 5, 2004 Just because its always been done that way doesn't make it right. I don't feel people should have to pay for art they would not normally support. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #23 May 5, 2004 Quotei agree, people should be allowed to say whatever they want, even crap like this. but th city of Melbourne shouldnt be supporting it... They are not. The exhibit has already been removed. This happened as soon as the city council was made aware of the issue. The art that was supposed to be exhibited was not available and some low level person, decided to go with this "art". We have a strong and reasonable large jewish community in Melbourne that is living in harmony with the rest of the population. Anti-semitic "issues" do not happen very often. Melbourne is very multi-cultural (e.g. second largest greek population after Athens), also lots of muslims, asians, italians etc. etc. and it is working quite well with only isolated problems. It is one of the aspects I enjoy in this city.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #24 May 5, 2004 I wasn't talking right or wrong or even saying if it should or shouldn't be done. Only that if it hadn't been that way we would not have a lot of the great art and music we do. I have no problem with my tax dollars being used to support the arts. The problem always becomes how do you define art? Personally I think it means something that not just anyone could do. I don't always like art I see but I can recognize the difference between talent and just throwing things together. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vmsfreaky1 0 #25 May 5, 2004 QuoteColonizing australia and the fate of the natives who were there first..." Good point, the numbers would however be much larger...sadly. I dont see any twisted facts here, they are all pretty well known, except for maybe the deaths of palestinians i think is around 150,000 not 200,000. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
