Religion based intolerance...

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

They were in Public, as a large group....

You're right. Imagine, a group of people in the most populated part of Philadelphia.

Quote

streetsw were blocked off

As they would be if I got a permit for a block party on my street.

Quote

Sounds to me that they were looking to be noticed, otherwise they would have gone to a park or somewhere not needing of a public permit to get streets closed down.

This is their neighborhood. This area is known as the gayborhood. It's lined with gay bars and cafes. Probably 50% of the people living in the area are gay. The other 50% don't care that they're gay. If they do, they're stupid for living there since it's more expensive and has less parking than surrounding neighborhoods.

Quote

So, I also guess there were fliers hanging up or advertizing in some way Right?????

Not that I saw. As a matter of fact, I saw them closing down the street on my way into work and wondered what was going on. I searched every local news outlet and web site that lists city events. I couldn't find anything anywhere. Than I checked the Philadelphia Gay News. That's the ONLY mention I could find of it anywhere.

Quote

Comon dude ... you don't agree with religion so what...
I don't agree with homos no big deal!!!!!

And I don't go to church picnics and tell them that what they are doing is wrong. They can feel free to have all the picnics they want. There are church picnics all the time during the summer that close down streets and hang signs stating that it's a church picnic. I don't feel compelled to go protest against it.

That's my point. Believe whatever the hell you want. Protest is good and right when directed at policy that is damaging. But protesting someone else's life style is ridiculous. That's why I used the term religious whackos.

Quote

The Gays were making a PUBLIC statement and so were the Christians

The statement the gays were making was that they are normal average people who like blues music and food. The statement that the protestors (I won't degrade Christians by calling them that) were making is that they can't tolerate normal average people that like blues music and food if they happen to be gay.

[AggieDave 6]

So?

We still have two fundimental rights in this country, freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Put those together and the religious "whackos" as you put it have every right to protest something they believe as wrong as you do. Religiously they believe that homosexuality is wrong, so they're trying to tell people that. Homosexuals were protesting that they have been treated wrong.

They both have EVERY right to do that.

Sounds a lot like you want some Stalin purges to clear away some of the religious "whackos" then to rewrite the constitution to revoke the freedom of speech to religions then revoke the freedom of religion to all of those that do not believe exactly as you believe.

That's about as left of center as they come, we're talking extreme left, well past socialism, well past true Marxist, right on to the bastard child of both, Communism.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Nightingale 0]

as much as I disagree with the protesters, they have a right to protest, provided they are not overly disruptive to the events taking place.

[jakee 1,591]

Quote

Sounds a lot like you want some Stalin purges to clear away some of the religious "whackos" then to rewrite the constitution to revoke the freedom of speech to religions then revoke the freedom of religion to all of those that do not believe exactly as you believe.

I didn't read it like that. What I read was more "why do these people feel the need to protest?" Not suggesting that they had no right to protest.

I could look at your post and decide that you wanted to stop anyone from bashing religious protestors by some internet speech controls.
Someone could read my post and think that I wanted to do the same thing to you to stop you complaining about people who complain about people complaining.

Its a line of logic that could just run and run.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,102]

>The “gay pride” marchers are trying to normalize their way of life in
> our culture by bringing out their sexual beliefs and shoving it down
>everyone’s throats.

No more so than a woman's skydiving team is shoving the superiority of their sex down everyone's throat. You're right; if you felt strongly that women should not be skydiving, then you have every right to protest something like the JFTC, or Passion8. But most of us would consider that a silly protest.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I didn't read it like that. What I read was more "why do these people feel the need to protest?" Not suggesting that they had no right to protest.

It was his use of the term "whackos" that was the give away.

Quote

Its a line of logic that could just run and run.

Yeah, that's for sure, but I think you may have read my post a little differently then I intended (tone and facial expressions get lost here, obviously). I was over the top with my commentary at the end to prove a point.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pajarito 0]

Quote

No more so than a woman's skydiving team is shoving the superiority of their sex down everyone's throat. You're right; if you felt strongly that women should not be skydiving, then you have every right to protest something like the JFTC, or Passion8. But most of us would consider that a silly protest.

Are you serious? Can’t you come up with a better comparison than that? Skydiving is a sport. If skydiving was banned altogether, it would only affect an extremely small segment of the population and keep them from having their fun. Don’t get me wrong. That would seriously disrupt my life! However, the agenda that the homosexual movement is pushing affects us all. It affects the foundations of both marriage and family, adoption principles, what gets taught to our kids in public schools concerning sex, etc. I’d say it is an important enough topic to protest if you believe strongly against what the homosexual movement is pushing. If The Southern Baptist Convention planned for and led a public “block party” with signs, flags, banners, and handing out leaflets, I’d expect that the “gay pride” people would be there to protest given the Christians opposing view of homosexuality. It’s funny how it went in the opening post from being a “gay pride festival” with streets closed off, food vendors, bands, balloons, rainbow flags, with lots of people walking around to a block party. I just can’t figure out why there’s all the fuss.

[Nightingale 0]

I don't understand how it affects you anymore than you getting married affects me.

[pajarito 0]

Quote

I don't understand how it affects you anymore than you getting married affects me.

I think we've already been through this long discussion in another thread concerning "gay marriage." However, PhillyKev couldn't understand (or at least he said that he didn't) what the Christian protestors had a problem with concerning the "gay pride" "block party", as he now calls it. I listed some of the reasons they were opposed to a public display of that magnitude which, in all probability, was designed to push the homosexual political agenda. I was also defending their right to protest just like the homosexuals have the right to march.

[Nightingale 0]

they have a right to protest as long as they do not interfere or cause an undue nuisance (ie, blocking access)

[pajarito 0]

Quote

they have a right to protest as long as they do not interfere or cause an undue nuisance (ie, blocking access)

Absolutely. I agree. Does anyone know if they did?

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Never hold a dust buster and a cat at the same time.

Have you done what's in your quote above? My wife's cat just had kittens 2 1/2 weeks ago. She had 4 but our Jack Russell Terrier killed one. I think a dust buster would completely suck one of these furballs in.

[Vallerina 2]

Quote

And I don't go to church picnics and tell them that what they are doing is wrong.

HAHA! Actually, that is a great idea. That's what I should do this summer when the Catholic church by my house has it's annual fair to raise money for the church (and for the priest who drives a Porsche and lives in a country club....yet preaches to others to lead simple lives) Maybe I should go and protest their pro-life beliefs (they have big signs outside the church saying that abortion is murder.) Maybe I should just go there every Sunday and protest organized religion as a whole because of the damage its done (ie, so many horrific things done in the name of "religion.")

Sure, while some say that people need to keep what goes on in the bedroom in the bedroom, many others feel that what goes on in church should stay in the church.

I'm all for people protesting and utilizing their freedom of speech to try to change the world. However, this quote always comes to my mind: "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Nightingale 0]

Yup, I have held a dust buster and a cat at the same time. I was cleaning up spilled cat food, kitty got curious, so I picked up the kitty to keep tails, ears, and whiskers out of the dust buster, and, unthinking, turned the dust buster on. I had claw marks down my back for a month!

[billvon 3,102]

>However, the agenda that the homosexual movement is pushing
>affects us all.

Unless you are having sex with men, it really doesn't. Like anything else you don't want to participate in, you simply choose not to. Don't like skydiving? Tall buildings? Uppity women? 7-11 clerks who can't speak english? Avoid them. Or even protest if you like, but then remember that you are the one causing all the fuss.

>I’d say it is an important enough topic to protest if you believe
>strongly against what the homosexual movement is pushing.

Again, no problem at all. Protest whatever you choose.

>If The Southern Baptist Convention planned for and led a
> public “block party” with signs, flags, banners, and handing out
> leaflets, I’d expect that the “gay pride” people would be there to
> protest given the Christians opposing view of homosexuality.

My home town (Oyster Bay) has a St. Rocco's festival every year, where they do such things. There are statues of the virgin mary that people tape $20 bills to (which I think is pretty obscene when you think about it) tents with gambling and beer and a tent with a bunch of religious materials. No one has ever protested it. And if they did, it wouldn't be much of a big deal.

> I just can’t figure out why there’s all the fuss.

Nor can I. No one is shoving anything down anyone's throat.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

God created people with the intention of having a loving personal relationship with them. He created people with “free will.” Otherwise, even in our limited understanding of the way of things, what would really be the point? If he created all people with only the capacity to love him unconditionally, that would be like dealing a hand in poker exactly how you wanted to instead of randomly after a shuffle.

Yes, here's the problem I've always had with this so-called "freewill":
If you actually exercise it and choose the NON-god-endorsed behavior, you go to hell for eternity.
That really leaves very little choice in how to behave, now doesn't it? God says, "Sure, you're 'free' to choose how you will behave; but if you choose 'gay' you go to hell. Oh, and by the way, I've wired you to have a natural predisposition to be that way. Have fun choosing!"

That is a fucked up claim of being "FREEwill." FREEwill would be if the ramifications of each behavior were equally weighted. What god has set up here amounts to COERCION.

Quote

Quote

It's like saying that only people over 5'8" will be allowed into heaven, and then saying he has nothing against people who are short; all they have to do is act tall. All gay people have to do is deny their very nature, is that it? Gee what a wonderful god this must be.

You inferred in a previous post that religious people were illogical thinkers; however, I truly fail to see the logic in your comparison above. Physical characteristics are traits which we cannot control. The way you behave is very much controllable. My natural instincts tell me everyday to cheat on my wife but I choose not to.

Cheating on your wife is not hard-wired into your biological being. Maybe the example was confusing because it dealt with physical traits. Okay, how about someone who is born with Tourette's Syndrome. Tell him it's a sin to swear, but look at what his brain chemistry forces him to do. It's not a simple matter of telling him that god says not to, so don't do it. It's not the same for him as it is for you and me.

I don't have homosexual tendencies, and apparently neither do you. So it's nothing for either of us to stay away from sinning in that way. Just imagine for a moment that GAY was the way god wanted you, and STRAIGHT (like you are now) is the way you really felt.

Quote

Side note: Your profile lists you as a proofreader. Within your argument, you use verbiage such as “fuckin’ cheap” and “real fucktard” to give strength to your position. Wouldn’t you correct that in the papers you proofread? I would.

Those are not grammatical or spelling errors in any strict sense. Those are salted in there for emphasis in expressing (venting?) my irritation about the subject -- nothing more. And I proofread, yes, but I work on ads, not editorial copy. (My paper is much the worse for the fact that they say I don't have the "experience" to work as a copy editor. I regularly see the stuff that their current copy editors miss.)

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[DrunkMonkey 0]

All of this is why I am glad to be a heterosexual deist.

[PhillyKev 0]

I never once tried to even insinuate that they don't have a right to protest. What I can't comprehend is why someone would go out of their way to go to protest an event that has absolutely ZERO influence on them whatsoever. If it was a gay marriage rights rally, I could understand, though not agree. If that were the case it's understandable for people to protest against events that promote public policy they oppose. But in this case, there was no agenda other than enjoying the weather.

Bottom line, they weren't protesting against their politics, or their actions, or even their lifestyle. They were protesting against who they are because they found out there would be a gathering of them in one place.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

They were protesting against who they are

That's not what they (religious/Christian) believe, they believe that the people are good, but the "sin" in their lives is bad.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Quote

They were protesting against who they are

That's not what they (religious/Christian) believe, they believe that the people are good, but the "sin" in their lives is bad.

What was sinful about listening to blues and eating bbq? Hell, that's pretty much the state past time in Texas isn't it?

Like I said, there was NOTHING about this event that indicated it had anything to do with homosexuality other than some rainbow flags. Hell, for all I know, there may not have been a single gay person there. The only indication, again, was the rainbow flags, and the protestors.

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

That's not what they (religious/Christian) believe,

You'll also notice that I'm calling them protestors, not Christians. Like I said above, that would be insulting to Christians.

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Yes, here's the problem I've always had with this so-called "freewill":
If you actually exercise it and choose the NON-god-endorsed behavior, you go to hell for eternity.
That really leaves very little choice in how to behave, now doesn't it? God says, "Sure, you're 'free' to choose how you will behave; but if you choose 'gay' you go to hell. Oh, and by the way, I've wired you to have a natural predisposition to be that way. Have fun choosing!"

Not exactly. Choosing “non-God-endorsed” behavior as you put it isn’t necessarily what damns you to hell for eternity. We all do that from time-to-time. Salvation is gained only by the grace of God through faith in his son Jesus Christ. Not accepting Jesus as your personal lord and savior and repenting of your sin is what will land you in hell ultimately.

Quote

That is a fucked up claim of being "FREEwill." FREEwill would be if the ramifications of each behavior were equally weighted. What god has set up here amounts to COERCION.

If you were going to punish your child for bad behavior, would you give him/her a lollipop as a reward? You can’t have it both ways. No matter how much you don’t like it. You can’t have both the satisfaction from doing what is wrong as well as the reward for not doing it.

Quote

Cheating on your wife is not hard-wired into your biological being. Maybe the example was confusing because it dealt with physical traits. Okay, how about someone who is born with Tourette's Syndrome. Tell him it's a sin to swear, but look at what his brain chemistry forces him to do. It's not a simple matter of telling him that god says not to, so don't do it. It's not the same for him as it is for you and me.

You can honestly tell me, as a man, that you don’t feel sexual attraction to many other women (I don’t know if you’re married or have a girlfriend.). You don’t walk down the beach and turn your head to look at some other woman in a g-string bikini. You never have inappropriate thoughts when you take that glance? You’re a better man than I am apparently. I don’t think that’s something I learned from my environment. I’ll bet if you set up a video camera on the beach where there were a bunch of guys (probably mostly heterosexual), had a good looking girl in a g-string walk up and down the beach, and you reviewed the film, you might be proved wrong. That goes for heterosexual males in any culture.

Tourette's Syndrome is a disease and can’t be helped. That person might not “want” to do what he/she does but doesn’t have the capacity to choose to not do it. There’s no personal fault there.

Quote

I don't have homosexual tendencies, and apparently neither do you. So it's nothing for either of us to stay away from sinning in that way. Just imagine for a moment that GAY was the way god wanted you, and STRAIGHT (like you are now) is the way you really felt.

Like I said, it’s a daily struggle for me to not cheat on my wife. Cheating doesn’t necessarily have to be in the physical sense. It can also be lusting in your mind. If you’re honest with yourself, you’ll know what I’m talking about. You've also broken #7 of The 10 Commandments. Everyone has their own trials and tribulations. You just have to deal with them.

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

The only indication, again, was the rainbow flags, and the protestors.

The Christians were probably there protesting the hijacking of yet another religious symbol, the rainbow.

Yea, that's it . . . . the rainbows . . . that's the ticket!

. . =(_8^(1)

[jakee 1,591]

Quote

Salvation is gained only by the grace of God through faith in his son Jesus Christ. Not accepting Jesus as your personal lord and savior and repenting of your sin is what will land you in hell ultimately.

1000AD right, a whole millenium of christianity. You happen to live in the americas and have never heard of Jesus. Doesn't that make you a bit buggered?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

Quote

1000AD right, a whole millenium of christianity. You happen to live in the americas and have never heard of Jesus. Doesn't that make you a bit buggered?

I don't know the whole answer to that. All I know is what is described in the first 1st chapter of the book of Romans. It is clear that all children of God will be given the chance to follow or reject. However, I also believe that there are some who were created for other purposes.

Key point:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Romans 1:18-19

As for your reference to Jesus, I really don't know and can only trust that God knows what he's doing.