How indescisive is he?

[turtlespeed 226]

So this is how I have understood the "Throwing Away of Medals" lies.
In responce to "You have been acused of throwing away your medals in protest"
1) I didn't do it!
2) I threw something away
3) I threw Someone Elses away
4) I did throw my ribbons away.
5) Now that there are winesses that will testify about it - Yes, I did throw them away.

WTF? How Many MORE Lies Are There Going To Be about this ONE incident?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

What are you talking about?

[TheAnvil 0]

Why, John Kerry of course! Surely you know about Dewey Canyon if you're going to vote for the man...

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

Yeah...I'm wondering about the 5 sources for the 5 different quotes that he's attributing to him. Or did he just overhear it?

[TheAnvil 0]

I would say read it...search a bit and you'll find it without too much difficulty.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

OK...found it. Still don't see where he said 5 different things:

Quote

Slate continues its short features on the 2004 presidential candidates. Previous series covered the candidates' biographies, buzzwords, agendas, worldviews, and claims to fame. This series assesses the story that supposedly shows each candidate at his worst. Here's the one told by critics of John Kerry—and what they leave out.

Charge: "Kerry, who understood well the importance that the media placed on imagery, put an exclamation mark on [a 1971 anti-Vietnam protest] by lining up with veterans to return their medals to the military on April 23. Kerry said he suggested that veterans place their medals and ribbons on a table and return them. But he said other members of the antiwar veterans group wanted to throw the medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the Capitol, and Kerry went along with the idea. … Some press reports say that Kerry 'threw his medals.' But Kerry has long maintained he threw his own ribbons but someone else's medals. In an interview, he said that he had previously met two veterans … who had asked Kerry to return their medals to the military. Kerry said he stuffed them into his jacket. He said that when he prepared to throw his ribbons over the fence, he reached into his jacket and pulled out the medals from those two veterans. He said his own medals remained in safekeeping" (Boston Globe, June 17, 2003).

"[Massachusetts] Republican State Committee Chairman Andres S. Natsios … accused Kerry of 'duplicity' in tossing away another veteran's medals, rather than his own" (Washington Post, Oct. 24, 1984).

Defense: In December 2002, The New Yorker reported that "Kerry had never implied" the medals he threw were his. "Indeed, the protesters that day had tossed all sorts of things—dog tags, photographs, discharge papers, insignia." Kerry's only mistake was that "he had complicated the story with an excess of honesty, recalling that he'd also tossed several medals that had been given him by veterans who were unable to make the trip."

In 1984, the Post reported that Kerry said "he had disagreed with the decision to throw away medals but agreed to toss those of another veteran at the man's request." In 1985, Kerry told the Post, "It's such a personal thing. They're my medals. I'll do what I want with them. … People say, 'You didn't throw your medals away.' Who said I had to? And why should I? It's my business. I did not want to throw my medals away."

In sum, Kerry seems innocent of duplicity but guilty of an extremely nuanced moral code, according to which it's OK to throw away your ribbons and somebody else's medals, but not your medals. As to the broader question of Vietnam, there's no dispute that Kerry fought honorably in the war and spoke out clearly against it upon his return.

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

WTF? How Many MORE Lies Are There Going To Be about this ONE incident?

I don't know. How many more will the Bush campaign make up?

[turtlespeed 226]

I never quoted it - I simply said that this is the way I understand it to be.

1st he denied it - then someone came forth and said that they saw him do it - then he said it was someone elses - the witnesses said no, they weren't - and so he said it was just the ribbons -

This morning on tv I listened to a witness say that they were in fact HIS Medals and he did throw them.

Do all Democrats lie when the truth won't hurt them?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

Did you throw away your medals?
No

I saw you throw medals.
They weren't mine

You said they were your awards you were throwing.
I was referring to the ribbons.

---------------------
Is that what you're calling a lie? I just made up that dialogue based on your description since you haven't provided any links and the articles I posted dispute your claim.

Do all republicans try to turn non-issues into political maelstroms to divert attention from their own candidates inadequacies?

Maybe he was throwing GWB's medals. Oh, wait, he never earned any. Well he might have, but they can't seem to find anyone who remembers him doing anything, including showing up, to warrant deserving any.

Who cares?

[TheAnvil 0]

This has obviously touched a nerve with PhillyKev. Philly, do you REALLY expect anyone with a three digit IQ to believe that Kerry threw somebody else's medals away at Dewey Canyon (III ?), told his fellow protestors they were somebody else's medals because he was proud of his own, and came into a leadership position within the commie funded VVAW? Do you REALLY expect anyone to believe that?

This is actually fairly old news. Mona Charen wrote about this in USEFUL IDIOTS about 18 months or so ago - great book. Kerry has reversed himself on this issue before and will undoubtedly do so again.

That's OK though. THat was YEARS ago, right? Just like GWB's DUI, the murder of Mary Jo Kopechne, GWB's guard service, Bubba's draft dodging, TeddyK's expulsion from Harvard for cheating......Judge Pickering's testimony against KKK members in MS, Bill Bennett's getting assaulted for being an NAACP member...years ago. Nobody cares about such things, right?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[b1jercat 0]

Dude you left out Tricky Dicky, why don't you compare Dubya's lack of judgment with Kerry's in 1971? Lets see how'd it go back than.Hell no we won't go! or Driving that train high on cocaine.

[RoadRash 0]

Quote

Do all Democrats lie when the truth won't hurt them?

Only the ones running for office......



~R+R...Ooops...did I say that?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[TheAnvil 0]

Nixon? Hadn't thought about him. Now that you bring him up, I'd say comparing him and GWB is rather odd at first look - I'd really have to think about it a bit for a decent comparison. Off the top of my head, Nixon whatever you think of him, was a foreign policy giant in many regards. GWB - the jury's still out on that and will be for years. Nixon had an extremely foul mouth in all facets of life (save the public one), while GWB is the exact opposite. Nixon's decision to recognize Communist China was masterful. With regards to his presidency as a whole, he did many things worthy of impeachment (in spirit and in fact) but was impeached for none of them. Very very interesting man/presidency. Comparing it to GWB in an intelligent manner will take a bit of thinking on my part.

Cocaine charge on GWB was never more than a rumor unless I'm mistaken. Kerry vs GWB in '71 - I'll take the non-commie any day over the man who was lying to congress about seeing all of those atrocities as a stooge for a communist backed organization.

Lemme think for a bit about Nixon-Bush comparison. Quite interesting.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

(Kerry vs GWB in '71 -)

I'll take the non-commie any day over the man who was lying to congress about seeing all of those atrocities as a stooge for a communist backed organization.

Sh*t, I'll back the non-commie in '04.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[b1jercat 0]

The real question is did Kerry lie to congress or did he actually believe what he was saying.
I don't think Kerry would have bought into a communist organization if he saw it for what it was.

blues

jerry

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

The real question is did Kerry lie to congress or did he actually believe what he was saying.
I don't think Kerry would have bought into a communist organization if he saw it for what it was.

blues

jerry

So you are saying he has poor judgement and is unable to recognise something for what it really is?

[Gawain 0]

Quote

So you are saying he has poor judgement and is unable to recognise something for what it really is?

Zinggg...! Politics can be soooo much fun. Kissing babies while stealing their lolly-pops.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[TheAnvil 0]

From Boortz today (Boortz refers to sKerry as 'The Poodle' quite often):

THE PATHETIC POODLE

So ... how has The Poodle decided to handle the revelation that he most certainly lied about that anti-war demonstration in 1971 -- you know, the one where he said he threw away his medals?

Come on, give the man a break here! He's caught ... red handed! There just is no way out of this one. Either he lied when he said he threw away his medals, or he lied when he said he didn't throw away his medals. Which is it, John? Either he lied when he told the Washington Post in 1985 that he didn't really throw his medals away because he wanted to keep them, or he lied when he told the Boston Globe in 1996 that he didn't throw them away because he didn't have time to go home and get them before the demonstration. He's already tried that "I threw away my ribbons, and they're the same thing" nonsense .. and it didn't work.

So ... what now for sKerry? Why, criticize George Bush's military record, that's what! Make the false claim that George Bush has never shown that he completed his obligation to the National Guard!

And what did Kerry have to say about Bill Clinton when people started questioning his draft-dodging? Kerry said: "We do not need to divide America over who served and how. I have personally always believed that many served in many different ways."

Different strokes for different parties, I guess.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

Still waiting for someone to show where he said he threw away his medals. Your quote above references two times he said he didn't, and claims they were lies. But has no reference to when he said he did.

[TheAnvil 0]

Re-read my second post in the thread.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

I searched, can't find it. I find a lot of claims that him saying they weren't his medals is a lie, but not a single reference of when he claimed they were his. Do you have a link? I'd really like to see it.

[Ron 10]

Quote

The real question is did Kerry lie to congress or did he actually believe what he was saying.

I tried to stay out, but this was to great.

So if Kerry thought he was telling the truth its OK. (More on this later), but if Bush thought Iraq had WMD's and they didn't he is a liar?

Quote

I don't think Kerry would have bought into a communist organization if he saw it for what it was

OK, so he made a mistake in his past and we should forgive him.....But you guys don't want to forgive Bush? Irony at work folks.

As for Kerry and his lies at winter soilder...Un he claimed to have seen and DONE deeds. So he either lied about them to get public support then, or he is lying now saying he never did those things for public support.

You can't have it both ways...He either lied back then or he is lying today.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

I searched, can't find it. I find a lot of claims that him saying they weren't his medals is a lie, but not a single reference of when he claimed they were his. Do you have a link? I'd really like to see it.

1) ". . .him saying they weren't his medals is a lie. . ."

2) ". . .when he claimed they were his . . ."

What is the difference between these statements?

If saying that the were not his medals is a lie, then wouldn't be logical that they were his and he wouldn't need to actually say that they are?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Quote

I searched, can't find it. I find a lot of claims that him saying they weren't his medals is a lie, but not a single reference of when he claimed they were his. Do you have a link? I'd really like to see it.

1) ". . .him saying they weren't his medals is a lie. . ."

2) ". . .when he claimed they were his . . ."

What is the difference between these statements?

If saying that the were not his medals is a lie, then wouldn't be logical that they were his and he wouldn't need to actually say that they are?

Let me explain it slowly....

Other people are claiming that he lied when he said they weren't his medals. What I can't find though, is when he ever claimed that they were his medals. So how did he lie? He said they weren't his in 1985, 1996, and today. So where is the lie? Where is a reference of him ever saying anything differently?

[turtlespeed 226]

didn't try the usual suspects huh Kev?

here this is from ABC NEWS - my guess as to why this is being reported this way is because Peter Jennings is feeling a little lied to himself.

I'll paste the more telling parts but here is the article.

"I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals," Kerry said in an interview on a Washington, D.C., news program on WRC-TV called Viewpoints on Nov. 6, 1971, according to a tape obtained by ABCNEWS.


Throughout his presidential campaign, Kerry has denied that he threw away any of his medals during an anti-war protest in April 1971.


He also said he — and the military — didn't make a distinction between medals and ribbons. "We threw away the symbols of what our country gave us for what we had gone through," he said.

And in 1988, Kerry again clarified his statement by saying he threw out ribbons he had been awarded for three combat wounds, but not his medals. "I was proud of my personal service and remain so," he told the National Journal.



In a videotape from 1971, obtained exclusively by ABCNEWS, Vietnam veteran John Kerry said he gave back his medals in order to "wake the country."
ABCNEWS.com

------------
But he never "Gave Back" his own - he just said he did - so is he lying now or was he lying then?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun