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I've never hunted, either. Hell, I've never even been fishing. But, I cannot say that hunting is bad, especially the way we do it.
I've been known to watch the "Wild Discovery" shows about animals killing other animals. I actually have seen my kitty kill a mouse. Snowflake didn't need to kill that mouse. Snowflake was overweight and well fed. Snowflake didn't even eat the mouse. That mouse was still alive when I saw Snowflake with it. I actually had the impression that the kitty got a pleasure out of beating that mouse to smithereens. Honestly, it looked like Snowflake was simply screwing with that mouse until it died.
We humans are higher evolved, but we do have the same basic systems as that little kitty did. And same as that mouse did.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
I've been known to watch the "Wild Discovery" shows about animals killing other animals. I actually have seen my kitty kill a mouse. Snowflake didn't need to kill that mouse. Snowflake was overweight and well fed. Snowflake didn't even eat the mouse. That mouse was still alive when I saw Snowflake with it. I actually had the impression that the kitty got a pleasure out of beating that mouse to smithereens. Honestly, it looked like Snowflake was simply screwing with that mouse until it died.
We humans are higher evolved, but we do have the same basic systems as that little kitty did. And same as that mouse did.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
billvon 3,111
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>How many animals have evolved a natural defense to guns?
A great many animals have colorings that make them difficult to shoot. Camouflage is a good way to evade any predator that relies on sighting their prey. The usual rules of selection apply (i.e. the easy to see animals get taken first.)
A great many animals have colorings that make them difficult to shoot. Camouflage is a good way to evade any predator that relies on sighting their prey. The usual rules of selection apply (i.e. the easy to see animals get taken first.)
The 'animals killing other animals' thing is interesting, too.
We know, or at least we think we know that cats kill food and that they also kill to teach how to kill. It's possible when snowflake was having fun with a mouse, it was instinctive. I doubt she derived actual pleasure. Maybe more a satisfaction from fulfilling that instinct.
The concept of right and wrong is human. This concept developed to regulate free will. Since we are able to reason and rationalize behaviours and actions that go beyond pure instinct, we need a definition of what is socially acceptable.
Since we have evolved beyond instinct, I think it's a weak argument to say that we must fulfill instinct. Or be 'allowed' to. If that's truly the case, it must be applicable to all instincts. Of course, it isn't. It's only applied where it suits our desires.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
We know, or at least we think we know that cats kill food and that they also kill to teach how to kill. It's possible when snowflake was having fun with a mouse, it was instinctive. I doubt she derived actual pleasure. Maybe more a satisfaction from fulfilling that instinct.
The concept of right and wrong is human. This concept developed to regulate free will. Since we are able to reason and rationalize behaviours and actions that go beyond pure instinct, we need a definition of what is socially acceptable.
Since we have evolved beyond instinct, I think it's a weak argument to say that we must fulfill instinct. Or be 'allowed' to. If that's truly the case, it must be applicable to all instincts. Of course, it isn't. It's only applied where it suits our desires.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
steve1 5
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What a load of rubbish! How many animals have evolved a natural defense to guns?
If you want to hunt a bear armed only with a knife or a lion armed only with a spear, I'd grant you that each side has an equal chance.
It's obvious you have never hunted Kallen. I know lot's of hunters who are outsmarted by their quarry each season, even though they had a rifle.
As far as the killing the bear thing, with a knife, this sounds pretty far fetched. My odds would be on the bear. I did kill a bear once, on the ground, with my recurve. It was very close and I have no doubts it could have eaten me if it wanted to. As far as a lion with a spear, maybe you could demonstrate that one to me first, and then I'll have a go at it. Or maybe not......Steve1
steve1 5
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Is bear meat actually palatable? We generally don't consume carnivores. It may have the same concern as the lion.
Some people like black bear meat. The last one I made into jerky. It wasn't bad in that form, but I'm not real fond of it. Mountain lion is supposed to be good, but I've never tried it. The wife of a friend says mountain lion is her favorite meat. You might feel a little like a cannibal eating it though....Steve1
rehmwa 2
Funny thread - not replying to anyone in general.
1 - hunting/fishing etc are not what I'd call a 'sport'. But I did enjoy them once and don't see an issue if you are hungry for that particular meal.
2 - that said, the term 'sportsman' is defined to hunters, fishermen etc. Although it's misleading, that's the definition. So what? people in 'real' sports aren't called 'sportsmen', they are called athletes. Hunters and fishermen are not athletes, they can be called sportsman or hobbyists, or whatever. It will only be degrading to those with wierd egos. So the semantics thing is just pointless here.
3 - hunting is about food. It's not supposed to be fair or even. The animal should not have a fair chance to win - unless you are particularly stupid. If a human went out hunting a bear or lion with a knife instead of a gun by 'choice', I'd quickly try to sell him a bridge as this person is an idiot or someone with an unreasonable ego. Also, you likely don't want to eat bear or lion unless you are starving.
It's our planet, we won. That's a "good thing". Everyday I tease our cat by showing him my opposable thumbs. He doesn't seem to mind as long as I feed him.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
1 - hunting/fishing etc are not what I'd call a 'sport'. But I did enjoy them once and don't see an issue if you are hungry for that particular meal.
2 - that said, the term 'sportsman' is defined to hunters, fishermen etc. Although it's misleading, that's the definition. So what? people in 'real' sports aren't called 'sportsmen', they are called athletes. Hunters and fishermen are not athletes, they can be called sportsman or hobbyists, or whatever. It will only be degrading to those with wierd egos. So the semantics thing is just pointless here.
3 - hunting is about food. It's not supposed to be fair or even. The animal should not have a fair chance to win - unless you are particularly stupid. If a human went out hunting a bear or lion with a knife instead of a gun by 'choice', I'd quickly try to sell him a bridge as this person is an idiot or someone with an unreasonable ego. Also, you likely don't want to eat bear or lion unless you are starving.
It's our planet, we won. That's a "good thing". Everyday I tease our cat by showing him my opposable thumbs. He doesn't seem to mind as long as I feed him.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 2,146
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What a load of rubbish! How many animals have evolved a natural defense to guns?
If you want to hunt a bear armed only with a knife or a lion armed only with a spear, I'd grant you that each side has an equal chance.
It's obvious you have never hunted Kallen. I know lot's of hunters who are outsmarted by their quarry each season, even though they had a rifle.
So the animal "wins" if it gets away? That isn't fair and balanced. I'd say the animal wins if it gets to eat the hunter.
PS I have hunted - pheasant with a shotgun. I just didn't claim it was "sport" or fair in any way. I had a gun, the pheasant didn't. The pheasant didn't get to eat me if I failed.Quote
As far as the killing the bear thing, with a knife, this sounds pretty far fetched. My odds would be on the bear. I did kill a bear once, on the ground, with my recurve. It was very close and I have no doubts it could have eaten me if it wanted to. As far as a lion with a spear, maybe you could demonstrate that one to me first, and then I'll have a go at it. Or maybe not......Steve1
So you're not willing to hunt if fairly matched with another predator that can actually eat you if it wins?...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
Quotemaybe you could demonstrate that one to me first, and then I'll have a go at it. Or maybe not......Steve1
So you're not willing to hunt if fairly matched with another predator that can actually eat you if it wins?
If he does, I'd like to try selling him a bridge.
Hunting had better not be fair. Pheasant can be delicious.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
steve1 5
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So you're not willing to hunt if fairly matched with another predator that can actually eat you if it wins?
Take a break Kallend. You're starting to talk crazy talk again. As I said earlier, I did that once when I was younger with my bow and a bear. I hit him in the chest with an arrow as he stood staring directly at me, a few yards away. I was on a steep side-hill and it ran right by me, blowing snot as he went. Would I like to repeat this? Maybe someday, but I also like breathing, and I'm in no real hurry to be turned into bear dung. Why don't you come to Montana and we'll go slaughter some poor defenseless little pheasants together. I'd guarantee you it would be more fun than arguing on the computer....Steve1JohnRich 4
QuoteSo you're not willing to hunt if fairly matched with another predator that can actually eat you if it wins?
Hunting in nature has nothing to do with "fairness". Where did you get the idea that it did?
Nearly every animial in nature has to kill something else to eat and survive. Predators don't hunt animals that are equal to them in skills - they survive by eating things that don't run as fast, don't have claws as sharp, or teeth as long. Big bad wolves eat cute fuzzy bunnies. Is that unnatural because the matchup is "unfair"? Nope. That's nature.
Man is part of that scheme of nature too. Man has none of the physical advantages of most other creatures in nature. We can't run very fast, we don't have claws, and we don't have fangs. The one thing we've got is a brain. And the reason man has survived is by using that brain to invent spears, bows and arrows, and other tools, all the way up to guns, to help them catch enough food to survive. It doesn't mean that man wins every time, they don't. Despite the use of firearms, the animal still usually escapes from the hunting attempts by man.
Hunting is just the thrill of participating in this process that has been on-going for hundreds of thousands of years. It's perfectly natural. It's the way nature works.
Big bad wolves don't go to grocery stores to buy bunny meat in shrink-wrapped plastic.The111 1
Quote>In sports, each side has the same opportunity to win.
I've seen a bunch of archery competitions. The target never wins.
The competetion is not between the archer and the target.www.WingsuitPhotos.com
That said, I could never shoot and kill anything that wasn't a threat to me or my property. But Im glad that there are people that hunt, as I think it is necessary and needs to be regulated.
Mike
Hunters and fisherman pay $$$$ lots of money via licenses and equipment.
Anti bunch pays nothing.
So if my math is right $$$$ > 0
Don't go away mad....just go away!
wishers never choose, choosers never wishsundevil777 102
All deer that might cross roads should be hunted down without limit.
They are a danger to the public.
I hit a deer last year, If I had swerved more severely, I might have died from crashing into a ditch.
Kill them all.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I amRichards 0
I personally could never enjoy shooting an animal, however it is not my place to impose my values on others. So long as hunters are eating the meat and not just killing for fun then I am fine with it.
RichardsMy biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.I personally could never enjoy shooting an animal, however it is not my place to impose my values on others. So long as hunters are eating the meat and not just killing for fun then I am fine with it.
Richards
Exactly as it should beLindsey 0
QuoteI really do see both sides of this issue and there are extremists on both ends. Deer are like big rats and, left to their own vices, can easily beome too lare in number to sustain, then they die of starvation.
That said, I could never shoot and kill anything that wasn't a threat to me or my property. But Im glad that there are people that hunt, as I think it is necessary and needs to be regulated.
Mike
But they make the BEST chili....ain't that right, Rick.
linz--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jailExAFO 0
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But they make the BEST chili....
Lemurs make the best chili. You need one each of the following:
B/W Ruffed Lemur
Ringtail Lemur
Sifaka Lemur (Buh-bye Zabomafoo!)Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
Why must such a defense be evolved? Have you looked at nature? It has predators and it has prey. Sometimes the only balance is that there are a lot of rabbits, and a smaller number of coyotes. The ratio needs to stay high, or the number of the hunters falls off. Then the rabbits flourish, and the cycle renews.
There are creatures besides man that shoot in the form of venon or darts, or with stunning cells. Often the prey's only defense is not to be the one picked on, or to run like hell. We're very slow animals, so we use a different method to capture.
The greater objection to hunting lion is that it is not a food product. There have been suggestions floated that it would be more profitable for these game reserves if the tourists hunt with tranq darts instead of bullets. More challenging and the animal survives....though I imagine there could be chronic concerns if the beast gets hit too often.
Is bear meat actually palatable? We generally don't consume carnivores. It may have the same concern as the lion.
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