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nbblood 0
Not directed at anyone in particular, but I personally couldn't possibly care less if you think hunting is a sport or not. It's all semantics. Think what you want, but just leave me to my hunting. If you don't think it's a sport, that's just fine with me, cause I know I don't care.
Blues,
Nathan
Blues,
Nathan
Blues,
Nathan
If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.
Nathan
If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.
JohnRich 4
QuoteIn rural Oregon curves ahead and stop were hunted like an endangered spices. It sure seemed like good sport at the time.
Would you like to put this in English for us?
kallend 2,147
QuoteQuoteIn rural Oregon curves ahead and stop were hunted like an endangered spices. It sure seemed like good sport at the time.
Would you like to put this in English for us?
I'm told that vanilla is in really short supply due to the world's demand for ice-cream. Maybe that's an endangered spice.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteWild animals have a huge advantage over humans, in alertness, camoflauge and stealth. They've got millions of years of evolution looking out for them. They can walk on leaves and snow without making a sound. Modern man going into the woods, has little of that knowledge and skill left in them.
That is an incredibly self-serving and limited statement.
We have devices that sound like the crying of a baby animal.
We have fenced-safaris. FENCED!
And just why do you think the Safari Club contributes millions to 'conserve' wildlife? So they can charge 'sportsman' thousands for a GUARANTEED KILL in these fenced ranges.
Just like sherpas haul our fat-asses up Everest, The Safari Club dumps you into a fenced range, with traumatized herds (their proof that these animals are 'dangerous'), and practically aims your gun for you.
You portray most hunters as blind and bumbling. Just how then, are you actually controlling the deer population?
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
pajarito 0
Quote
Just like sherpas haul our fat-asses up Everest
I doubt there are any "fat asses" that have made it up Everest, guided or not.
TomAiello 26
QuoteQuoteIn rural Oregon curves ahead and stop were hunted like an endangered spices. It sure seemed like good sport at the time.
Would you like to put this in English for us?
In plain english that translates to:
In many rural places, young people get bored enough to shoot street signs.
I know I've done it.
-- Tom Aiello
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com
If that's your only contention with my post, I'll take it!
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
QuoteJust like sherpas haul our fat-asses up Everest, The Safari Club dumps you into a fenced range, with traumatized herds (their proof that these animals are 'dangerous'), and practically aims your gun for you.
Hmm. So you have some organizations and groups that lead to a fenced in kill, and therefore you'll indict all hunters?
I'm sure that hunters regard these folks the way many climbers regard Dick Bass, or the way many people view skydivers as bank-robbing, drug dealing punks.
What are your thoughts on hunters like Nugent or others who hunt without the aid of "Safari Clubs?"
My wife is hotter than your wife.
You don't have to kill anything to have a good hunt. Just being out there in tune with nature and watching everything around you gives me enough satisfaction. If I shoot something it is legal and nothing is wasted. Killing is not the primary reason I hunt. On another side I know people that go hunting to get away from their wives.
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
JohnRich 4
QuoteQuoteQuoteIn rural Oregon curves ahead and stop were hunted like an endangered spices. It sure seemed like good sport at the time.
Would you like to put this in English for us?
I'm told that vanilla is in really short supply due to the world's demand for ice-cream. Maybe that's an endangered spice.
That's really funny, because when I saw "endangered spices", I thought of vanilla too. I use it for home-made milkshakes. But the natural vanilla extract is very expensive. So I buy the artificial stuff.
Somebody save me - I'm thinking like Kallend!
JohnRich 4
QuoteThat is an incredibly self-serving and limited statement.
We have devices that sound like the crying of a baby animal.
We have fenced-safaris. FENCED!
Um, talking about "self-serving"...
Characterizing all hunters as the same as those that go on "canned" hunts, is an improper characterization. I don't like the canned hunts. I also don't like the practice of feeders, which train the deer to come to a certain location. Many hunters agree with me, maybe even most of them.
QuoteYou portray most hunters as blind and bumbling. Just how then, are you actually controlling the deer population?
Nowhere did I say "blind and bumbling". I just said that some of them don't know their guns as well as they should, and therefore miss their shots. That's to the advantage of the animal, so I would think you would be in favor of that. Enough of the hunters *do* know their wood skills well enough, and shoot well enough, to get their quarry. There's enough of those to control the population. Game biologists control this factor, with hunting seasons and bag limits, for the health of the herd.
The requirement to check your catch at a game station in many states also provides vital statistics, such as the size of the animals, diseases, and so forth.
And a good deal of the meat is donated to charity.
Kennedy 0
QuoteYou portray most hunters as blind and bumbling. Just how then, are you actually controlling the deer population?
Actually, he said modern man has lost a great deal of knowledge. He did not say hunters are bumbling idiots. No "blind and bumbling" idiot would last very long. They would tire of repeated failures.
If you had any grasp whatsoever of modern conservation and/or population control, you would understand that hunters do you a great service. How can I say that? I look back at my home state of New Jersey, where few hunt and those that do suffer unwarranted attacks. What has happened?
Deer herds have exploded. Deer-car accidents have multiplied. Deer now starve on a regular basis. Farmers crops are destroyed at records costs. And millions of taxpayer dollars goes into "animal control" coffers that pay companies to go out and 'destroy nuisances;' their words, not mine.
QuoteWe have devices that sound like the crying of a baby animal.
Very few hunters use high tech anything. The "devices" hunters use tend to be as simple as a reed, shed antlers, a stick on a flat surface, etc. Most of it I could make or find in the woods. See attachments.
QuoteWe have fenced-safaris. FENCED!
And just why do you think the Safari Club contributes millions to 'conserve' wildlife? So they can charge 'sportsman' thousands for a GUARANTEED KILL in these fenced ranges.
What are you talking about? Where has the Safari Club charged members for a fenced hunt?
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Kennedy 0
So when's the last time you heard someone refer to a football player as a "sportsman?"
I hate to break it to you, but sportsman is fairly specific to outdoorsmen. You could just look at what the American Heritage® Dictionary or Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary have to say on the fact.
Also, your definition of sport is ridiculously small. According to you, if it's not one team against another with a referee, it's not a sport.
I doubt this will change your mind, as you seem to ignore what the dictionary has to say, but "sport" actually has a very wide definition. Just check dictionary.com
(I decided to save HH the bandwith of quoting the entire entry)
I hate to break it to you, but sportsman is fairly specific to outdoorsmen. You could just look at what the American Heritage® Dictionary or Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary have to say on the fact.
Also, your definition of sport is ridiculously small. According to you, if it's not one team against another with a referee, it's not a sport.
I doubt this will change your mind, as you seem to ignore what the dictionary has to say, but "sport" actually has a very wide definition. Just check dictionary.com
(I decided to save HH the bandwith of quoting the entire entry)
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
steve1 5
Quote
You are being silly. Hunting is not a sport. If you want to shoot for sport, paintball is a sport.
Please note that I have nothing against hunting. I just think it absurd to call hunters "sportsmen".
I'm going to try this again. For some reason my reply to this crazy comment didn't print out. I hope noone thinks I agree with this....
Anyhow, Kallend, I could find nothing in my dictionary relating to the term sportsman that had anything to do with a mutual agreement between parties. The definition that I found had to do with fairness in an outdoor pursuit. Obviously you don't think that hunting is fair to the animal hunted. I disagree wholeheartedly.
Hunting is rarely an easy endeavor. Game animals have spent thousands of years evolving into a creature that can easily escape their enemies. They have extremely keen senses of sight, smell, and hearing. One of the predators they have learned to escape from is man. I've seen whitetail deer take off running at well over 300 yards away when they picked up my scent.
I'll admit rifle hunting can get easy if there are few hunters and if there are a lot of animals in an area. For that reason many "sportsmen" hold out for a bigger animal. I know some hunters who hunt year after year without even pulling the trigger because they didn't see an animal big enough that they wanted to kill. Instead of filling my tag the first weekend on a little critter it's more challenging to hold out for something bigger. An old buck didn't get that way from being stupid and they are usually the toughest animal in the woods to take.
If a person becomes skilled at rifle hunting it can become too easy in some cases. I doubt if trophy hunting will ever become too easy though. But for those who want a greater challenge there is always bow hunting. I hunt with a bow most of the season for big game. I killed one big buck last Fall. I hit it perfectly through both lungs with one arrow. I don't feel good about hunting if the animal suffers unnecassarily. Most hunters I know do the same and try not to shoot unless they are sure of their shot and can put the bullet or arrow where it will put the animal down with minimal suffering. involved.
What I'm getting at here is that there are a lot of ethics involved to hunting. Unless fair chase is involved I don't want any part of it. Most hunters hunt because it is a challenge. Not because it is an easy way to get free meat. Everything I kill I try to use. Wasting meat is something no self respecting hunter does. Wild game is the only meat my family eats. In fact my kids have a hard time eating many cuts of beef, because they aren't used to eating all that fat. I even tan the hide, mount the head, myself.
I've killed so many critters over the years that I don't really relish pulling the trigger now days. In fact I'm even going to retire my compound bow and use a recurve next year. It's more difficult to shoot, and you have to get closer to take a shot. It's just more challenging, and that is what hunting is all about for me.
Even though I don't shoot a whole lot of critters now days I still enjoy taking my wife and kids out hunting. The night before last I took my jet boat up the river after work. My wife and I crawled up on a flock of turkeys and started calling. When a nice gobbler came within range my wife fired her 12 guage and nocked him right down. I love to see the excitement in her eyes when we hunt together. And this is great meat to eat. And then there's all that great scenery, the smell of sage and juniper, and the feel of the sun after a long winter.
Just as I feel sorry for those who don't jump, I also feel sorry for those who don't hunt. You're just missing out on a lot in life....Steve1
steve1 5
One more thing I wanted to throw out there. Many people think of hunting as inhumane. I think if a person really looks at this with an open mind they would have a very different conclusion.
In nature animals don't live happily ever after as is often portrayed on Disneyland. When an animal gets old it is often chewed to death by predators. Some predators, such as wolves will often eat an animal while it is very much alive. In the winter months many animals will starve to death if there are too many in an area and not enough to eat. The old and very young go first. I mean this is a slow miserable death.
Proper game management will keep the number of game animals in balance with their winter range. Wildlife biologists, who are paid with "sportsman's" dollars, study game ranges and set qotas on the number of animals that should be taken.
What really gravels my rear is when I see the loss of habitat being destroyed in the name of progress. Many people are building homes in the wrong place. In Montana people are often building in the foothills. Right smack in the middle of the winter range needed by deer and elk. Often times these people are the same anti-hunters who wine about the cruelty of hunting. Because these areas are now loaded with people, dogs, cars, and houses,...the deer and elk head up into deep snow where they starve to death.
And then there are those folks who think that meat is the neatly wrapped stuff you buy in the super-market. I guess it's okay to have someone else kill your meat for you, but please don't forget this is from a living creature. I remember eating supper with a woman who was saying she didn't like hunting because it was so cruel. This was as she stuffed her face eating veal. You know...(baby calf meat).
Every spring I help our neighbors brand. Calves are run into a corral, roped, jumped on, branded, castrated, dehorned, stuffed full of growth hormones, vacinated, ear tagged, and then turned loose to their Mama. And then when they are old enough they are killed at a slaughter-house and butchered. This is cruelty to me. I think wildlife harvested in a humane way by a "Sportsman" to feed his family, is a much better deal to me.
The reason we have wildlife today is because hunters care about their preservation and they spend millions of dollars each year to manage their numbers. If you really wanted to do something positive toward the future of wildlife you could buy a hunting license.....Steve1
In nature animals don't live happily ever after as is often portrayed on Disneyland. When an animal gets old it is often chewed to death by predators. Some predators, such as wolves will often eat an animal while it is very much alive. In the winter months many animals will starve to death if there are too many in an area and not enough to eat. The old and very young go first. I mean this is a slow miserable death.
Proper game management will keep the number of game animals in balance with their winter range. Wildlife biologists, who are paid with "sportsman's" dollars, study game ranges and set qotas on the number of animals that should be taken.
What really gravels my rear is when I see the loss of habitat being destroyed in the name of progress. Many people are building homes in the wrong place. In Montana people are often building in the foothills. Right smack in the middle of the winter range needed by deer and elk. Often times these people are the same anti-hunters who wine about the cruelty of hunting. Because these areas are now loaded with people, dogs, cars, and houses,...the deer and elk head up into deep snow where they starve to death.
And then there are those folks who think that meat is the neatly wrapped stuff you buy in the super-market. I guess it's okay to have someone else kill your meat for you, but please don't forget this is from a living creature. I remember eating supper with a woman who was saying she didn't like hunting because it was so cruel. This was as she stuffed her face eating veal. You know...(baby calf meat).
Every spring I help our neighbors brand. Calves are run into a corral, roped, jumped on, branded, castrated, dehorned, stuffed full of growth hormones, vacinated, ear tagged, and then turned loose to their Mama. And then when they are old enough they are killed at a slaughter-house and butchered. This is cruelty to me. I think wildlife harvested in a humane way by a "Sportsman" to feed his family, is a much better deal to me.
The reason we have wildlife today is because hunters care about their preservation and they spend millions of dollars each year to manage their numbers. If you really wanted to do something positive toward the future of wildlife you could buy a hunting license.....Steve1
Nope. I wasn't indicting anyone.
I quoted the exact paragraph I was responding to.
I don't hunt. I never have. Therefore I have no first hand knowledge with which to speak.
I'd guess that it must take an incredible strength of character to 'bear witness' to the death of another creature - especially at one's own hand.
Without that, it's most likely one of the most cowardly things a man can do for pleasure.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
I quoted the exact paragraph I was responding to.
I don't hunt. I never have. Therefore I have no first hand knowledge with which to speak.
I'd guess that it must take an incredible strength of character to 'bear witness' to the death of another creature - especially at one's own hand.
Without that, it's most likely one of the most cowardly things a man can do for pleasure.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
D22369 0
I do wonder if it is less humane though.
***
I was involved in competition muzzle loading for over 20 years and hunted every year with muzzle loaders from 50 cal to my current 58 calibre, Its true that the velocity of the round is much lower than a modern firearm but the kinetic energy imparted by a large hunk of soft lead is more than sufficient to give you a one shot kill with little or no suffering of the animal.
Roy
***
I was involved in competition muzzle loading for over 20 years and hunted every year with muzzle loaders from 50 cal to my current 58 calibre, Its true that the velocity of the round is much lower than a modern firearm but the kinetic energy imparted by a large hunk of soft lead is more than sufficient to give you a one shot kill with little or no suffering of the animal.
Roy
They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.
QuoteWithout that, it's most likely one of the most cowardly things a man can do for pleasure.
How is it any more cowardly than buying a hamburger?
steve1 5
Without that, it's most likely one of the most cowardly things a man can do for pleasure.
I think you're way off on this one. What do you think man is if not a hunter? For thousands of years that is what man did, he hunted for food. If you were a poor hunter you didn't make it. It is part of our evolutionary make up. Today we may not have to hunt, but it is still a big part of who we are.
And I don't think you are a better person just because you don't hunt and you pay someone else to do your killing for you. I'll tell you I do feel remorse when I kill an animal, even one I've spent months hunting for. My daughters also feel this when they hunt. But I'll tell you it is also satisfying to pit your skills against an illusive quarry. You may pretend you are above all that.
And then again, if killing was all there was to hunting, you'd think hunters would get a job in a slaughter house and be happy. The thought of that sickens me to. I don't love to kill for killings sake. There's much more to hunting than that.
I probably love animals more than you do. I love my dog, our two horses, two cats. If I didn't I wouldn't have them.
You know this reminds me of trying to explain to a Wuffo, what jumping is all about.....Steve1
RoadRash 0
QuoteQuoteWithout that, it's most likely one of the most cowardly things a man can do for pleasure.
How is it any more cowardly than buying a hamburger?
I completely agree with PhillyKev here. When a hamburger is served to you, you didn't kill the meat that is being served, and you don't know how it was processed or if some of it had been wasted. But that is ok? Explain...
~R+R
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Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...
You know, I might be way off on this one. As I wrote earlier, I have no real experience hunting. I understand the evolutionary aspect of it - although I'm sure about the relevancy. And I do understand to some degree hunting for food. I wasn't lumping all hunters together under one umbrella.
I have strong feelings about wasted life. And taking life for pleasure confuses me. I'm not sure what constitutes being "above all that" but I know I couldn't do it.
You write that killing for killings sake sickens you and that there is much more to it than that. I'd be interested to hear from you, who has expressed compassion for the animals you kill, what else there is? (There was no irony or sarcasm in the above question) As I said, I've never done it - I wouldn't have a clue.
Explaining anything to someone who has never done it is like " trying to explain to a Wuffo, what jumping is all about". In this case, there are many clear differences in the details.
Finally, for me, this subject is not entirely about the love of animals - although I have love for living things and for life. It's about the ability within one's self to take the life of another creature. And the process of doing that.
To PhillyKev: I don't buy hamburger either. I would challenge every single meat eater out there to reject store bought meat and revert to a time when you had to kill what you ate. Or at the very least, you knew the family who did it and possibly 'knew' the cow you were eating.
The Adkins Diet is a disgusting, greedy, gluttonous, indulgeant sick joke. (Not really relevant, I just like saying it - alot.
I think my views on factory farming have been clear. I'm still forming thoughts and opinions on the 'hunter for food'. I'm sure I'd choose that method over walking into a Safeway and purchasing a hunk of some randomly dead creature. At least with hunting for food you must face your choice. You must actively make that choice.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
I have strong feelings about wasted life. And taking life for pleasure confuses me. I'm not sure what constitutes being "above all that" but I know I couldn't do it.
You write that killing for killings sake sickens you and that there is much more to it than that. I'd be interested to hear from you, who has expressed compassion for the animals you kill, what else there is? (There was no irony or sarcasm in the above question) As I said, I've never done it - I wouldn't have a clue.
Quotethis reminds me of trying to explain to a Wuffo, what jumping is all about
Explaining anything to someone who has never done it is like " trying to explain to a Wuffo, what jumping is all about". In this case, there are many clear differences in the details.
Finally, for me, this subject is not entirely about the love of animals - although I have love for living things and for life. It's about the ability within one's self to take the life of another creature. And the process of doing that.
To PhillyKev: I don't buy hamburger either. I would challenge every single meat eater out there to reject store bought meat and revert to a time when you had to kill what you ate. Or at the very least, you knew the family who did it and possibly 'knew' the cow you were eating.
The Adkins Diet is a disgusting, greedy, gluttonous, indulgeant sick joke. (Not really relevant, I just like saying it - alot.
I think my views on factory farming have been clear. I'm still forming thoughts and opinions on the 'hunter for food'. I'm sure I'd choose that method over walking into a Safeway and purchasing a hunk of some randomly dead creature. At least with hunting for food you must face your choice. You must actively make that choice.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
QuoteWhen a hamburger is served to you, you didn't kill the meat that is being served, and you don't know how it was processed or if some of it had been wasted. But that is ok? Explain...
I'm very outspoken regarding my feelings on this.
I agree with you and PhillyKev. For me it is not OK. The argument I made was not about hunting for your food - it was about killing for pleasure.
As a matter of fact, if I had to choose the lesser of 2 evils, I'd say we all had to hunt in order to eat meat.
If I hadn't already made the choice to not eat any animal products,
I sure would then.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
Hunting is not a sport unless you arm the game with guns and they get to shoot back.
With meat being plentiful in the grocery stores, I have neither needed nor wanted to hunt for quite a few years now.
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