peacefuljeffrey 0 #26 April 23, 2004 QuoteNo.... Would you let someone search your house for no reason? If you're not a criminal, what do you have to be worried about? Exactly! The argument "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind being open to the government's constant scrutiny" is specious and abusive. It puts innocent people in the unfair position of having to defend their right to not be treated as suspect without probable cause. Every intrusion into our privacy -- EVERY one -- is introduced with the promise that it will help solve crime, help make people safer, help save the children, blah blah blah. Of COURSE they will couch these "requests" (which in time tend to become demands) in ways that plead for help in maintaining safety and order. Do you think they would ever come out and admit their intent to eventually abuse the information that they get on people? I am sick and angry of the way people give up THEIR rights flippantly as though they are not something to be guarded closely. Why? Because when my neighbor gives up HER rights, the people who took them from her can then look at me and say, "Gee, you're a suspicious character; after all, SHE gave up HER rights no problem. What are YOU hiding?" And even if I'm hiding nothing, and am simply a person who doesn't want to live under constant suspicion (like the English do with their cameras and their government's spoken desire to have ALL subjects' DNA on file!), they can try to make me look unreasonable and clandestine just because I want to keep my rights. So fuck NO, I will not assent to having my DNA on file. I don't give a shit if it supposedly helps them solve crimes. The only crime it would help them solve if they had MY DNA would be a crime committed by ME, right? And in that case, I would have provided them evidence against me -- which it is my 5th amendment right to NOT provide. But since I know I am not a criminal and I have no desire to commit crimes, there is no reason for me to feel that the police investigation people will be hampered in solving crimes if they don't have MY DNA. And ohh, don't even get me started on having MICROCHIPS implanted under the skin. If it ever comes to being required to agree to that, there will be a war such as has never been seen before, and I will be fighting in it. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #27 April 23, 2004 See, now that's where I have a problem. I have no issue with every convicted felon in the country being swabbed. In fact, I support it. I think every felon in a prison supported by federal dollars should be swabbed and checked against unsolved crimes. (if DNA can set death row inmates free, why can't it replace them with the people who belong there?) I do not, however, support every person arrested for a felony being swabbed. Being arrested does not mean you give up your rights. Innocent until proven guilty, remember that one? A person on this site was wrongly accused of a felony. Should his privacy be invaded? Should his genetic makeup be on file with law enforcement? Should he be a suspect later on in life because of false accusations and perjury? (remember, cops will look at it as "he beat the wrap," not as he was actually innocent)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #28 April 23, 2004 QuoteIsn't there some sort of DNA information on the chips in the new design of US passport? I am not 100% clear on this but I know that from October this year we (UK citizens) have to get a visa to travel to the US unless we have the new design of passport (which is not available in UK until July 05!) All I know about that passport is that it has a chip in it which hold some kind (so I was told) of DNA information to help ID us. Overall it means that the cost of trips to the US just went up by $100... But on the topic, this would mean that our (any foreigner) DNA information would be available to law enforcement, and ultimately abuses of the system in the US... (if I am right?) No, you do not have to have your dna in your passport. The requirement is "biometric" information, as I understand it. That basically means fingerprints. You can get them in the UK, but you have to go to London, Belfast, and maybe Edinburgh, but I'm not sure about that last one. I think it means you have to go to a consulate, not just a post office (if that's where you get them). Also, the US passport has no such requirement. You are referring to anyone else's passport if they want to enter the US.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #29 April 23, 2004 "That basically means fingerprints. You can get them in the UK, but you have to go to London, Belfast, and maybe Edinburgh, but I'm not sure about that last one. I think it means you have to go to a consulate, not just a post office (if that's where you get them). " One used to be able to apply for pasports at the post office, well, they would give you the forms and we would post them off to the passport office. In Scotland the passport office is in Glasgow, which is where you either sent the forms, or walked them through the system and waited if you needed the passport urgently. I'm guessing you will have to go there to get your biometric data (finger prints, etc but I don't think DNA is involved yet) coded. If we desire to visit Uncle Sam, I believe we will have to go to the US consulate for the visa, the consulate in Edinburgh will not process visa applications, so a trip down to the big smoke is in order. Frank mentioned that this would add 100 quid to a trip to the US, not so in my case, over a grand factoring in time off work, travel to London, overnight hotel etc. Does anyone know how all this affects those of us lucky enough to have a valid work visa for the US?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #30 April 23, 2004 Quote This struck me odd, as to why wouldn't you want your DNA on file if you never committed or plan on committing a crime in the future that would be convictable by DNA. I feel that if your not a criminal why worry about having it on file. Maybe the kid learned something in school. Maybe he took a field trip to visit The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. It could be said the some scientist roving Germany doing studies on eye & hair coloring -- recording their data on 3x5 cards -- started the whole thing. How much more frightening is the concept of a DNA collection? At least, that was my immediate impression the moment I saw the exhibit years ago.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #31 April 23, 2004 Would you give up fingerprints? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #32 April 23, 2004 QuoteOne good side to testing everyone like stated above, is in recovery efforts in kidnapping, or disasters. "We're the government, and we're here to help." -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
