Military Coffins: The Photos You're Not Supposed to See

[PhillyKev 0]

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And you seemed to avoid the whole show "Hero Kerry's" killings.

Probably because it has nothing to do with the issue in any way, shape or form. Is their an executive order to not show those pictures? Do they have anything to do with current events? Do such pictures even exist?

[PhillyKev 0]

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Like I said...Don't like it...Blame Clinton.

I don't blame anyone. I think it is an incorrect policy, if Clinton started it, well, he made a mistake. Does GWB have to do everything that Clinton did?

Is the only defense you can ever come up with for GWB to say "but Clinton did x......but Kerry did y...."?

[rickjump1 0]

I feel you are just pushing a left wing anti-American agenda. I don't like Bush, and I don't like how we got into this. Most of all, I don't like young Americans dying, but unlike Vietnam, I feel we will see this to the end. If we pulled out today the place would blow up. Don't you remember the war in Lebanon or the war between Iraq and Iran?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Like I said...Don't like it...Blame Clinton.

Looks like you can't blame Clinton.

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The Pentagon has declined to comment on Silicio's case but spokesman James Turner said the policy of media coverage of war dead has been in effect since 1991.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20040422/ts_nm/iraq_photograph_dc

[Ron 10]

I don't like them.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Skyrad 0]

Clearly you didn't read my post. As I said, the picture was printed in a National British newspaper, its not something I dug around on the net for. Also as I said they also printed a similar picture of Tony Blair made up of UK casualties. I am not left wing nor Anti American. You also have noticed if you had read my post that I did not give a view on the picture but asked for yours. I remember very well the war in the Lebanon. If you'd seen my post last week you'd know that I also don't belive that either the UK or the US can pull out of Iraq until the job of rebuilding the nation is done or until the situation changes vastly one way or another.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[PhillyKev 0]

But you haven't bashed Clinton, used catchy phrases like calling people dims, or declared unwavering support for Bush's actions no matter what they are.

Therefore, you must be an anti-American lefty.

[Skyrad 0]

LOL........

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Guest]

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>If your Son had died in that conflict...Would you care its not his body?

I think it would bother me more that the government wanted to prevent anyone from seeing even his flag-covered coffin.

I agree that such images are pretty emotional. But that's true on both sides of the fence. If emotional images are what you want to ban, make sure you also take care of the pictures of blown-up Hamas leaders and images of the burning WTC. Banning only one kind of picture is an attempt to make a political point using emotion.

It's a tough issue to decide. On the one hand, I want to respect the fallen and protect their families from the kind of sick, twisted voyeurism the media revels in.

OTOH, I think it's prudent to let the public understand the true cost of war; and let them see what they're getting for their money.

Therefore, I like to think most people are smart enough to realize that war is dangerous, dirty business, and that the youngest and best and brightest sometimes die senselessly, but it is sometimes unavoidable.

Trouble is that images tend to be misused because the reaction of those who see them is on such a gut level.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Lindsey 0]

LOL!!! If the tables were turned and France or Spain or Iran or even England were doing the same thing, we'd be ALL OVER it!!!! Talking about how they're controlling their people's access, and their propaganda and all....lol. If it's US (the U.S.) we can come up will all kinds of excuses for why it's okay. It's absolutely beyond me....

Peace~
Lindsey

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rickjump1 0]

I apologize. I'm afraid I got a little worked up looking at the suggested website particularly the article stating that American snipers in Falluja were shooting Iraqi women and children. I have been in combat on the ground and in the air, and I never saw anyone purposely pick out women and children unless they were carrying weapons and trying to kill us. I did see a couple of North Vietnamese nurses get shot one night while trying to break out of a cordon, but they were both carrying soviet burp guns. I saw a lot of innocent people killed by mistake and I hated it. Again my apology.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Guest]

What is this "thing" they are supposed to be doing? Respecting the fallen? If I had a son who came back in an aluminum case I sure wouldn't want pictures of it to be used for political purposes BY ANYONE, and I'm sure that family members of British troops who have been KIA feel the same way.

Perhaps it's a cultural thing. Over here, we prefer to grieve in private with friends and relatives. In the Middle East, it's a big show, with a lot of public wailing.

Not knocking it, it's just different in some places.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Photographs of the coffins in themselves are not disprespectful. Their use, for political gain or propoganda is. The fallen deserve some dignity for their final journey home.
For example in the other thread there was an import/export captioned image, with import being the guys emplaning and export being the return of the coffins.
Highly disrespectful and inexcusable in my mind.
If the contractors and their employees have been specifically advised not to capture these images, for whatever reason, and their staff insist on taking them anyways, then they should face suitable disciplinary action. As was the case here I believe.

Skyrad, the mosaic collages are powerful, but the medium of the internet doesn't do them justice. The similar Myra Hindley moasaic for example made from children's hand prints in particular struck me, as that particular image her always struck me as capturing a latent nastiness.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Skyrad 0]

I agree, all the pictures ie; Bush, Blair and Hindley make for uncomfortable viewing. I think the political ones are very cleaver making a political point but don't sit easy with me. However they are thought provoking which is what they are designed to be. As for the Hindley one I thought it was shocking but very thought provoking and was gald they exhibited it at the Acadamy.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[PhillyKev 0]

Saw an interview with the woman who gave the picture to the Seatle Times last night. Here's the story.

Her friend took the picture, and sent it to her privately. She received the picture and was moved by the imagery showing the "brave sacrifice" that these soldiers had made in service to their country. (Personally, that's how I viewed the picture, also. My first thought wasn't about the horrors of war, it was about the bravery and commitment of the fallen). So, she picked up the phone and called the Times. Said she didn't think about it, or consider capitalizing on it, just a reaction to a picture that moved her. She sent it to them, they ran it, then the media firestorm errupted. The Times called her back, told her about the furor that was about to ensue and advised her to get representation. She hired a publicity agent to handle further distribution of the photo. And set up a fund to benefit the families of the fallen which is where any and all profits from the photo are going.

Then she was fired.

[storm1977 0]

I law of not showing photographs without family consent was created in 91 right before the first gulf war. It was mainly over looked.

In late 2000 Under the Clinton Administration this law was passed to all branches of the military.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[PhillyKev 0]

It wasn't a law, it was a pentagon directive. And the photo is of anonymous, flag draped coffins. How do you identify the family members? How do family members make the connection it is their relative under that flag?

[Gravitymaster 0]

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/

[kpjumps 0]

No one knows that it is their relative. I don't suppose I can explain it, but it is the idea that I think is wrong. The pain is so real when it is your family member and to have to share it with the world... It is too personal. That picture made me cry and it wasn't my dad this time. I feel like I invaded the privacy of those who are involved...Like I took something that wasn't mine. If that makes any sense...

Maybe you just can't get it until you have thrown an entire set of dishes at a wall trying to makes sense of your loss, trying to figure out why your Daddy was taken from you.

_____________________

Your character will ultimately determine your destiny.

[PhillyKev 0]

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FOIA request was sent to the Department of Defense asking for "All photographs showing caskets (or other devices) containing the remains of US military personnel at Dover AFB. This would include, but not be limited to, caskets arriving, caskets departing, and any funerary rites/rituals being performed. The timeframe for these photos is from 01 February 2003 to the present."

The Department of Defense complied with the request but did not differentiate between photos dealing with "the remains of US military personnel" and the remains of NASA (or Israeli) astronauts. As such, a resonable person might well assume that the photos were all of military activities.

Sounds like the DoD got it wrong. Memory Hole sent a request under the freedom of info act to the DoD. They were trying to get info from the source, not just pass along bad info. Yes, they are a trusted source.

[genoyamamoto 0]

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http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/

Latest update: The Memoryhole gets it wrong.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=947

Isn't this one of your "trusted sources"?

[newsstand 0]

The article at the second link is headlined:

"DOD Misidentifies Photos of Columbia Crew Remains Arriving at Dover AFB as Being Iraq War Dead"

Can you tell it is not a US military member being carried out there? I sure can't.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[genoyamamoto 0]

I'm not the one that released the photos, nor am I the one that posted them online. Therefore it is not my responsibility to accurately describe the photos. If, however, I were to post such photos online, I would take a second to ask, "Hey, who's that guy standing there wearing a civillian suit with his right hand over his heart? Hmmm... he sure looks familiar..." But then again, that's just what I did when I saw those pics. Afterall, it's not like i'm trying to "rescue knowledge and free information" like thememoryhole.org.

Smart people ask the right questions, then question the answers. I guess others just ask questions and answer them on their own, often making incorrect assumptions.

It's nice to see some of the news outlets correcting their mistake.

Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me
Feel the hate...
Photos here

[Lizard 0]

Should pictures of the events of 9/11 be used in campaign commercials? Is that disrespectful to those that lost their lives or to their families? I guess right and wrong depends on who it benefits from it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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FOIA request was sent to the Department of Defense asking for "All photographs showing caskets (or other devices) containing the remains of US military personnel at Dover AFB. This would include, but not be limited to, caskets arriving, caskets departing, and any funerary rites/rituals being performed. The timeframe for these photos is from 01 February 2003 to the present."

The Department of Defense complied with the request but did not differentiate between photos dealing with "the remains of US military personnel" and the remains of NASA (or Israeli) astronauts. As such, a resonable person might well assume that the photos were all of military activities.

Sounds like the DoD got it wrong. Memory Hole sent a request under the freedom of info act to the DoD. They were trying to get info from the source, not just pass along bad info. Yes, they are a trusted source.

So you are saying if someone gets information from a govt. agency and it turns out to be bad info they shouldn't be held accountable for acting on that info?