When should a country extradite a suspect? (In this case a man accused of being "Bin Laden's banker")

[Erroll 80]

It is the South African government's policy not to extradite people who may face the death penalty in the country asking for their extradition, irrespective of the crimes they have been accused of. This policy is based on the fact this country has abolished capital punishment.

From The Star :

Libya believes that Ibrahim Tantoush has links to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, and years ago stole a substantial amount of gold "to finance terrorist activities abroad".....

Tantoush was arrested in February after Libya asked for his extradition. He will appear in court again on June 30. .....


This is just an example and to my knowledge we don't have an extradition treaty with Libya in any case.

My question is "When is extradition/non-extradition justified?". If Bin Laden himself showed up in South Africa, can/should the government refuse extradition based on their own Constitution?

[Tonto 1]

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My question is "When is extradition/non-extradition justified?". If Bin Laden himself showed up in South Africa, can/should the government refuse extradition based on their own Constitution?

Yes.

I have no doubt that doing so would sour our relations with the US, and that they would bring all sorts of political, ecconomic social and perhaps even military pressure to bear, but our constitution, unlike the US constitution, recognises the right to life.

Truth is - I hope he never turns up here...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[juanesky 0]

Yes, your constitution unlike the US it is also about 10 years old, and finally got rid of apartheid and decades of abuses and death sentencing without trials.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Tonto 1]

Ahh yes. Quite correct. That was then, and this is now. I don't live in a rougue state that goes to war without mandate and has killed 8000 civilians in the past year - every one without trial.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[juanesky 0]

You used to, though. In a very rogue state that the abuses far exceed those 8000.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Tonto 1]

No, actually, I only returned to SA in 1993, once a date had been set for the election. And never, not once in the 48 years of apartheid rule, did the SA government kill 8000 civilians in a single year.

Never.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

And your point is?
Just about every nation that I can think of has had a shameful period in its development.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Botellines 0]

Having a contest about whose country is worse is like arguing about whose dick is bigger. (pointless)

I think that there has been some precedence (¿US and Spain? i need to check it), it usually gets solved by a commitment from the country that supports death penalty to not apply it to that person.

[juanesky 0]

My point is, for those blind, that the original poster only releases news from SA, and there comes Tonto, out of the blue procastinating against the US.???

Where is the comparison? So don't tell me great things about a nation that until recently was not even allowed to participate in the olympics, UN, etc, due to a brutal regime that killed and dissappeared thousands.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Yes.

I have no doubt that doing so would sour our relations with the US, and that they would bring all sorts of political, ecconomic social and perhaps even military pressure to bear, but our constitution, unlike the US constitution, recognises the right to life.

Truth is - I hope he never turns up here... "

And which part of this procrastinates? (postpones or delays needlessly?) against the USA?

If SA gave refuge to someone like Bin Laden, you can bet your bottom dollar that the US govt would do everything within its power to have him extradited.
Tonto even ends his post with the statement that he hoped Bin laden never appeared in SA, I'm assuming because of the awkward situation it would place his country in.
Why are you taking this as an attack on the US?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Botellines 0]

http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/treaties/b-47(1).html

Article 9

Can someone make it clicky, please?

[nacmacfeegle 0]

http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/treaties/b-47(1).html

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Tonto 1]

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and there comes Tonto, out of the blue procastinating against the US.???

And there comes Tonto, out of the blue.

You should be my comentator!

Well, since I am South African, and we're dealing with the SA constitution... it's not so out of the blue really. If Bin Laden turned up here... which country do you think most likely to ask for his extradition?
Any wild guesses there?

As for me "procastinating against the US.."

did you mean "procrastinating?"

Dictionary.com defines the word as follows...

"To put off doing something, especially out of habitual carelessness or laziness."

v. tr.

"To postpone or delay needlessly."

I really don't think I was doing that. Care to clarify?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Having a contest about whose country is worse is like arguing about whose dick is bigger. (pointless)

Why can't we include the point? That effects overall length you know and could change the results.

[rehmwa 2]

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Ahh yes. Quite correct. That was then, and this is now. I don't live in a rougue state that goes to war without mandate and has killed 8000 civilians in the past year - every one without trial.

t

Stop fighting guys - obviously the above point is agreement that Iraq under Saddam was a bad place.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kiltboy 0]

The UK is another country won't extradite anyone that faces the death penalty.
David

[PhillyKev 0]

Neither does France, or just about any other civilized country.

To answer the question, "When should a country extradite a suspect?"

A: When they have an extradition treaty and the conditions of the extradition abide by it.

[wmw999 2,588]

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Having a contest about whose country is worse is like arguing about whose dick is bigger.

Mine mine mine mine!!!
(checks)
Oh wait. I'm a girl . I guess that means I have boobies instead
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kiltboy 0]

I should have mentioned as well that the UK didn't extradite Pinochet to Spain as they thought he was unfit to stand trial. I also think there was a case of Russia wanting someone and the UK said no as they believed he wouldn't get a fair trial.

Question to anyone that could answer.
I am under the impression that a US court (we're talking about OBL so I can assume the US would be very interested in his extradition) does not take into account the legality of how you end up in front of the court with regard to extradition i.e. if it was a legal extradition or if you were taken by force.

Is that the case or am I wrong?

David

[PhillyKev 0]

That's correct. In fact there was a stink a couple years ago between us and Canada because there were a couple bounty hunters who were kidnapping people from Canada and dragging them back across the border.

[Kennedy 0]

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Question to anyone that could answer.
I am under the impression that a US court (we're talking about OBL so I can assume the US would be very interested in his extradition) does not take into account the legality of how you end up in front of the court with regard to extradition i.e. if it was a legal extradition or if you were taken by force.

I believe this is correct. Actually, most, if not all, courts take confessions and evidence that were seized across the border, whether it fits the US constitution or not.

The reason is the constitution is by and large a limiting document on the US government. That's why bounty hunters and private eyes have far more "lee-way" when looking into someone.

I heard two border state officers arguing about whether or not the constitution covers agents of the government when they are in foreign countries. (can you take a suspect across the border and beat a confession/information out of him?)

Many countries have some sort of extradition treaty with the US, but a lot of them state that no suspect is deported if he might face the death penalty.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Nothing they can do about it. As long as the people being dragged are not Canadians, once the bounty hunters get them back on US soil, the canadian government has fuckall they can do about it.

Sovereignty does still exist, no matter how much the UN is trying to destroy it.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[PhillyKev 0]

If I recall correctly, though. The issue was that Canada arrested one of the bounty hunters when he went back into Canada. And the US was arguing that they should let him go.

[Michele 1]

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Oh wait. I'm a girl . I guess that means I have boobies instead

Yeah?

Well.

MINE are bigger than yours. So there. Nyah!

Bwaaaaaaaaahhhaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[vmsfreaky1 0]

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Sovereignty does still exist, no matter how much the UN is trying to destroy it.

I think you mean the U.S