rehmwa 2 #26 April 21, 2004 Quote A nice ideal however, experience indicates otherwise. there are all sorts of 'uniforms' for every clic, but if you pay attention its not hard to see some of these things are not like the others....unfortunately most people rely solely on appearance to decide who is likely to be 'good' and who they think is 'bad' You keep believing that and you are part of the problem. But I resent the stereotyping in your post. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #27 April 21, 2004 Quotefree thinkers rarely look like everyone else...and yet are still persecuted because they look different...the sooner the world learns to not judge by appearances the better... Very true and sometimes free thinkers look exactly like everyone else. Free thinking is about thinking not appearance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #28 April 21, 2004 QuoteThat's a crock. and so is the preceeding statement. When someone says things like "in my experience" and "people I've met", you're unlikely to be in a position to call it a crock with any sort of authority on the matter. QuotePeople are people all across the board (free thinkers can look like the any stereotype out there even your so-called 'normals' in the 'in-crowd') and both statements just perpetuate the attitude. People who are really 'free-thinkers' are unlikely to follow fashion trends or be in the 'in-crowd' almost by definition. That said, you're correct that people are people across the board and I don't think there's any real correlation between being tattooed & pierced and being a 'free-thinker', nor do I think either is required to be nice to others. QuoteThat said, this is great story anyway and would be even if it was a boyscout or someone shaved with a crew cut, or someone in a suit, or a dress or leather chaps, or a clown outfit. Agreed. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 April 21, 2004 QuotePeople who are really 'free-thinkers' are unlikely to follow fashion trends or be in the 'in-crowd' almost by definition. I'd like to see that 'definition' or even the data that correlates. "free thinkers" is such a subjective self-congratulatory term anyway. Another label/stereotype from the stereotype of that self defined group who claim to be against labels. I've also never seen free flyers persecuted in any way. It's silly since freeflying is mainstream in our sport. So if it is rebellious or free thinking, then it's rebellious in a conformist sort of way (just like body art - how much of a statement of individuality can it be if everybody does it?) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #30 April 21, 2004 QuoteQuotePeople who are really 'free-thinkers' are unlikely to follow fashion trends or be in the 'in-crowd' almost by definition. I'd like to see that 'definition' or even the data that correlates. "free thinkers" is such a subjective self-congratulatory term anyway. Another label/stereotype from the stereotype of that self defined group who claim to be against labels. From www.dictionary.com Quotefree-thinker, n.One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation. Thus why I used the word "almost." As applies to appearance, it's unlikely that a person who meets this definition will wear clothing style "x" or hairstyle "y" solely because that's what everyone else is doing or what the fashion police tell them too. A person who meets this definition is likely to wear clothing that makes sense to them regardless of current trends. QuoteI've also never seen free flyers persecuted in any way. It's silly since freeflying is mainstream in our sport. So if it is rebellious or free thinking, then it's rebellious in a conformist sort of way (just like body art - how much of a statement of individuality can it be if everybody does it?) Agreed. Freeflying is not an indication of free-thought, nor is body art. That's not to say a freeflyer or tattoo-freak can't be a free-thinker as well, but such a classification hinges on why they do/wear what they do. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #31 April 21, 2004 QuoteThus why I used the word "almost." As applies to appearance, it's unlikely that a person who meets this definition will wear clothing style "x" or hairstyle "y" solely because that's what everyone else is doing or what the fashion police tell them too. A person who meets this definition is likely to wear clothing that makes sense to them regardless of current trends. You mean like a 3 piece suit is so completely uncommon today that someone wearing one is more likely to be a free-thinker than someone pierced and tattooed and wearing trendy studded clothes - or dreadlocks, or grunge...? It just doesn't work. There is no universal accepted 'uniform' or haircut anymore. (Thankfully). This is more likely people who seem to be adults just still in a state of rebellion against their parents. But now they can label themselves as misunderstood or free thinkers or persecuted - when in reality are just petulant children who don't understand themselves. I'm always on the lookout for the self-proclaimed victim. The symptom is that they are usually the only one to notice that status. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #32 April 21, 2004 I gotta say that I agree with you. When I hear "Free Thinker" I kinda cringe. What is a free thinker? And who isn't? I like to wear leather and I enjoy to ride a motorcycle. I have tattoos and have had body peircings but removed them because they bored me. I have spouted off about how the moral majority and right wingers want to control our thoughts and lives and make us do what they think is right. Turn us into another pathetic sheep following the herd. I bucked the system, walked outside the established norms, and thumbed my nose at anything I felt like thumbing my nose at. Did those things make me a free thinker? Now I am a Christian. By Choice. I enjoy Sunday morning worship and Bible study. I am much more conservative. Still like leather, still love my Harley, and now I enjoy wearing a suit. I still love tattoos, and will likely get more. I want to contribute something I believe to be of value to this world, provide for my family and have the house and two cars and yard and live in Suburbia or even a little outside it. My attitudes toward some things have changed and others have remained the same. Do these things make me not a free thinker? In both cases the answer is no. I do what I feel and believe to be the right thing, not because someone tells me it is right, but because I believe it to be right. I do it by choice, not to be accepted but to be happy. To enjoy a fullness of life the way I want to live it. To experience living in a way that brings me peace and joy. This is what makes one a free thinker. Sometimes I think people miss that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #33 April 22, 2004 QuoteYou mean like a 3 piece suit is so completely uncommon today that someone wearing one is more likely to be a free-thinker than someone pierced and tattooed and wearing trendy studded clothes - or dreadlocks, or grunge...? Emoticon noted, but my answer is still "probably", contingent on how they decided that was best for them. Still, I do have a hard time imagining how a person could rationalize the vest in a 3-piece, or worse, a tie. And is there anything dumber in the world than a bolo-tie? The opposite of free-thinker? Those sheep these days who are getting ethnic tattoos without really even knowing what they mean. "Ooh, the guy at the parlor said this symbol is Japanese for 'dragon', and that's cooler than your's that's supposedly celtic for 'warrior'." Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #34 April 23, 2004 Whats wrong with you guys. The post is about someone helping a little old lady across the street and you drag the thread down to arguing about the definition of "free thinkers".My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #35 April 23, 2004 QuoteWhats wrong with you guys. The post is about someone helping a little old lady across the street and you drag the thread down to arguing about the definition of "free thinkers". Herd mentality. Ironic, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 April 26, 2004 QuoteWhats wrong with you guys. The post is about someone helping a little old lady across the street and you drag the thread down to arguing about the definition of "free thinkers". Exactly - that part was beautiful. Go to posts 6 and 9 and that's the problem. These comments were not about 'somebody' helping a little old lady, they were about a stereotype helping a little old lady. anyway, get over it. This is what conversations do. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #37 April 26, 2004 QuoteGo to posts 6 and 9 and that's the problem. I can't talk for the other poster, but if you notice I was responding to a previous posters comment on not judging others by inking, etc. The problem was your interpretation of that post. Don't make me a part of your problem. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #38 May 1, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhats wrong with you guys. The post is about someone helping a little old lady across the street and you drag the thread down to arguing about the definition of "free thinkers". Exactly - that part was beautiful. Go to posts 6 and 9 and that's the problem. These comments were not about 'somebody' helping a little old lady, they were about a stereotype helping a little old lady. no they were about the person, who (most likely) gets treated like the stereotype often enough for it to exist in the first place.... the “problem” is some cant seem to accept that stereotypes DO exist and are a significant influence on first impressions and inherent social prejudice..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #39 May 1, 2004 Quoteanyway, get over it. This is what conversations do. Why should I get over it. People who have trouble holding a single thought or addressing any given issue without turning it into a pissing contest are not something to get over. They are something most of us get tired of.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #40 May 1, 2004 That's awesome. I hope this guy has a good week. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
