rhino 0 #201 April 19, 2004 QuoteI also made the choice that was best for me, his grandparents, Andrew, Justin and Ross (his three best friends for nearly ten years), his aunt and uncle, his two cousins who couldn't imaginge life without a big cousin to pester them, his sister who came along seven years later, a few teachers who have been touched by Kyle. I'd bet his future wife appreciates it. (Well, most days she will) And who knows how many others Kyle will touch. He's a very sweet kid. My point is this... Kyle belongs no more to me than any number of people whose lives have been touched by him. Why should my rights have been greater than anyone else Kyle belongs to? That never made any sense to me. I am only one person Kyle belongs to... Why should I be given special right to play judge and jury as to whether or not he had a right to be born? Bet he's be hoppin' mad (and devestated) to learn that many people thought because of the circumstances of his conception he had no right to be born! Your character will ultimately determine your destiny. TELL IT GIRL!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #202 April 19, 2004 QuoteSo....even if a woman didn't take her pills exactly as she was supposed to and she ovulated and subsequently became pregnant, the implantation of the embryo is inhibited by the ATROPHY (not thickening) of the endometrium. The result is the same--due to the effects of the pill the embryo did not implant and thus did not live. I didn't say it didn't happen. I said this: However, as with IUD’s, prevention of implantation is very rare and is not the main mode of action of the contraceptive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #203 April 19, 2004 QuoteWhat is being proposed is taking away the ability to correct that accident. You mean kill an innocent child don't you? What is being proposed is RESPONSIBILITY. Being RESPONSIBLE FOR A HUMAN LIFE YOU CREATED. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #204 April 19, 2004 QuoteWhat about fathers? I was more discussing the general principle of child "ownership" than trying to extrapolate to abortions. I'm not sure about fathers. I realize that in the real world the two parents aren't going to see eye to eye in every case. It's a tough question, but I do think that they are really the only two people who ought to have a say (if they want it) in how to raise the child. I don't think that grandparents ought to have rights in a grandchild born to a non-minor parent. In the case of a minor parent, I can see some carryover "ownership." I wouldn't go so far as to say that a parent could force their minor child to abort a pregnancy. Don't know. Tough questions. As I said, I was more digressing than trying to apply this to abortions.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #205 April 19, 2004 QuoteGod already knows and planned for who would and would not have an abortion so you might as well leave him out of it That is bullshit.. Free Will.. Ain't it a bitch.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #206 April 19, 2004 Quoteyour not 'human' until you can live in the same environment as the adult of your species (without artificial support) That is once again your opinion. They are like assholes. We all have them. Some smell more than others.. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #207 April 19, 2004 What happened to your step-cousin is absolutely horrible in my opinion and I wouldn't begin to say I could understand in the slightest what she had to go through in making that decision. Without trying to take away from that AT ALL, I can't help but think that the aborted baby didn't ask for or deserve that situation. The baby is completely innocent and deserves a chance to live. If you consider it human, I would think you'd have to be against taking its life. Again, that's a very tough one and my wife disagrees with me somewhat on that circumstance. She says that she wouldn't herself but would not condemn or judge anyone else for making the decision to abort in that circumstance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #208 April 19, 2004 The fetal period is from the beginning of the 3rd month until birth. It is termed an embryo from the 3rd through the 8th weeks. Before that you have the blastocyst following the morula stage (16 cells). It is the blastocyst that enters the uterine cavity and actually implants. Implantation is complete at about day 11 or 12 after fertilization. QuoteQuotePlease tell me, what is the factual definition of the word "fetus"? As long as people have varying opinions I don't believe a proper definition exists.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #209 April 19, 2004 >We are talking LIFE here Bill.. No, we're talking medical terms. The terms ovum, embryo, blastocyst, morula, fetus etc refer to specific stages or ranges of human development. They are used by doctors who must make such distinctions; indeed, by using precise and well-defined language they can better discuss (and care for) the unborn. People discussing embryonic development also use such terms because they define the stage of development you are referring to. To refuse to use the correct terms to push your agenda is fine, but don't expect others to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #210 April 19, 2004 The baby was completely innocent and didn't ask for that situation... my cousin was ALSO completely innocent and didn't ask for that situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #211 April 19, 2004 My point is that it is not very rare even though it is not the main mode of action of the contraceptive. It is A MODE of action of the contraceptive. QuoteQuoteSo....even if a woman didn't take her pills exactly as she was supposed to and she ovulated and subsequently became pregnant, the implantation of the embryo is inhibited by the ATROPHY (not thickening) of the endometrium. The result is the same--due to the effects of the pill the embryo did not implant and thus did not live. I didn't say it didn't happen. I said this: However, as with IUD’s, prevention of implantation is very rare and is not the main mode of action of the contraceptive.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #212 April 19, 2004 I forgot to mention that my wife deals with pregnant teens of that age more than you might think. They have their babies and, I guess, deal with the situation. You're absolutely correct in that your step-cousin is also completely innocent of this. IMO, that still doesn't make it right to kill the other who is as well. Again, IMHO. I can't imagine that situation and she has my deepest sympathies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #213 April 19, 2004 Quote It is termed an embryo from the 3rd through the 8th weeks. Those embryo's have little toes and fingers.. Since when does size matter? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #214 April 19, 2004 if it was your daughter, what would you have her do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #215 April 19, 2004 It's a potential side effect. Not what they're aiming for in pregnancy prevention. It is not a targeted mode of action. Did you read my stuff from Novak's and Comprehensive Gynecology? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #216 April 19, 2004 Quote The items you listed were biological. So you're at least in favor of banning abortion after the point of viability? What is it...20 weeks nowadays when they can sometimes live apart from the mother and "breath this atmosphere?" absolutely except in cases where birth would endanger the mother. Although i'm hesitant to rely on the miracles of modern science to determine whats viable. I would set the standard at natural means, not those modern medicine now allows. I'd also limit the number of abortions allowed, no one should be using it as a means of birth control..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #217 April 19, 2004 You asked what the definition of fetus was. I decided to add those medical definitions to the discussion. There is a lot more than size that defines those parameters. Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #218 April 19, 2004 QuoteThe baby was completely innocent and didn't ask for that situation... my cousin was ALSO completely innocent and didn't ask for that situation. ______ I am also very sorry for what happened to your cousin... Food for thought.. My mother had my sister when she was 14,, She had me when she was 19.. Am I wrong or didn't people have babies routinely around age 12-14 back in the day? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #219 April 19, 2004 Yes it IS a targeted mode of action. And a lot of pregnancies abort without anyone knowing it because of this mode of action. QuoteIt's a potential side effect. Not what they're aiming for in pregnancy prevention. It is not a targeted mode of action. Did you read my stuff from Novak's and Comprehensive Gynecology?-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #220 April 19, 2004 Quoteno one should be using it as a means of birth control.. Sadly, they are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #221 April 19, 2004 I can tell you that I would have the deepest emotions imaginable (mostly rage and the desire to kill the person that did it). It hasn't happened to me, thank God, so I would hope I would respond (concerning her) the way I'm stating to you. I could not kill another innocent to alleviate the problem. I'm only for abortion as a means to save the mother's life when she's at HIGH risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #222 April 19, 2004 My cousin has diabetes. She was diagnosed only a few months before the rape, and her disease wasn't under control very well at that point. Pregnancies for pre-teens are dangerous simply because a twelve year old is a lot smaller than a 15 or 16 year old. Sure, "back in the day" a lot of 12 year olds got pregnant... and a lot of them died in childbirth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #223 April 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteyour not 'human' until you can live in the same environment as the adult of your species (without artificial support) That is once again your opinion. They are like assholes. We all have them. Some smell more than others.. lol nope its not opinion. its a repeatable, verifiable standard. humans live in a specific enviroment, if you cant live in the enviroment of your species (without artifical support) your not a functioning member of that species, you many however be life, you just wont be for long....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #224 April 19, 2004 Quote I'm only for abortion as a means to save the mother's life when she's at HIGH risk. And for when the first two methods of birth control pills fail. (not saying that's wrong...but you forgot to add that!)There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #225 April 19, 2004 QuoteYes it IS a targeted mode of action. And a lot of pregnancies abort without anyone knowing it because of this mode of action. My wife, with 4 years Med School, 4 years OB/GYN Residency training, and 1 year Private Practice disagrees with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 9 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
